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Jammer7

Santander drawing interest

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17 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Yes.  You come up with a guy, play with him, see him start to succeed, become friends...and he is traded away at the brink of success.

Yes.  That is demoralizing.  I get it, the team isn't making any attempts to field a competitive product, but they are trying to develop one.  So when one of those players does develop and they are shipped out.  Don't pretend the guys left over don't feel that.

I would bet it would have zero effect on the on field product.

They are actively being told we are going to suck, that you (channeling Herm Edwards) don’t Play to win the game.

And yet this is demoralizing?  I don’t see that at all.  
 

When you play sports, you are told that you play to win.  The Os are telling you the opposite.  That is what would be demoralizing.

Plus, with him gone, other players get opportunity and that is obviously not demoralizing.

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If the O's keep Santander and Mancini, they're telling us they want to win starting later this year and into next. If they don't, they're delaying yet another year. 

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3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

If the O's keep Santander and Mancini, they're telling us they want to win starting later this year and into next. If they don't, they're delaying yet another year. 

They've already told us that they don't care about winning this year.

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

They've already told us that they don't care about winning this year.

Right. I'm saying they'd be telling us the same about 2022.

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Just now, LookinUp said:

Right. I'm saying they'd be telling us the same about 2022.

I was talking about when you said " they want to win starting later this year ".

We have been flat out told that isn't a priority for 2021. 

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I was talking about when you said " they want to win starting later this year ".

We have been flat out told that isn't a priority for 2021. 

Perhaps. I think later this year is when it gets real. Doesn't mean we'll be in the division race.

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17 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Right. I'm saying they'd be telling us the same about 2022.

No they aren’t.  You can easily still win in 2022 without these guys.

Its not like you are trying to replace Trout and Tatis or something.

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17 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

There is definitely something to be said to waiting a year.

If he has a healthy 2021, I would say he will be a 2-3 WAR player.  That should make him more valuable than he is now and that certainly could be part of the thinking.

My only issue with that is his injury history.  I’m willing to gamble that we can get 75-80 cents on the dollar now (compared to what a healthy 2021 could bring us) vs waiting.

This was part of my initial thought process. Set the price high now, if they take it, do the deal. If not, we still have him and I believe his value will keep growing well. 

As far as being a “core player,” he was voted the team’s most valuable player. That is about as CORE as it gets. Is he a core player on many contenders? That’s a separate question, and depends on the team.

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Just now, Jammer7 said:

This was part of my initial thought process. Set the price high now, if they take it, do the deal. If not, we still have him and I believe his value will keep growing well. 

As far as being a “core player,” he was voted the team’s most valuable player. That is about as CORE as it gets. Is he a core player on many contenders? That’s a separate question, and depends on the team.

The team MVP award means nothing, especially on a team where you are purposely not trying to add talent or win and when it’s a very short season.

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33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No they aren’t.  You can easily still win in 2022 without these guys.

Its not like you are trying to replace Trout and Tatis or something.

I just think this is lazy thinking.

If we don't have either Mancini or Santander in 2022, we'll be without 2 of our top 3-4 bats (currently). We can replace 1 with Rutschman, but he's already going to be there, so that doesn't count. 

Is Diaz, who hasn't hit as well in AA as either of the two we'd be losing, going to replace one of them? Is Kjerstad going to that fast? Probably not, so now you're replacing them with free agents that will cost more for similar production on a team that isn't signing free agents. 

They wouldn't be replaced. 

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Personally, I enjoy what I have seen from Santander (both on and off the field). Having said that, if Santander can be traded for talent greater than the value the Orioles place on Santander, you make the trade. This team is still a little bit a way from contending; they are getting closer, but not quite there yet. Again, IMO, this team in this rebuild mode are doing the correct steps now so that these steps wont be needed to be done again down the road. 

 

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4 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I just think this is lazy thinking.

If we don't have either Mancini or Santander in 2022, we'll be without 2 of our top 3-4 bats (currently). We can replace 1 with Rutschman, but he's already going to be there, so that doesn't count. 

Is Diaz, who hasn't hit as well in AA as either of the two we'd be losing, going to replace one of them? Is Kjerstad going to that fast? Probably not, so now you're replacing them with free agents that will cost more for similar production on a team that isn't signing free agents. 

They wouldn't be replaced. 

Why probably not?

The only reason I can come up with for why he wouldn't be ready is that Elias is still playing service time games.

You pick a bat first college player high in the first round he should be ready quickly.  If he isn't you don' messed up A-Aron.

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He hasn't taken a minor league at bat yet and you have him replacing one of our best hitters for next season?

Do you want to make a friendly wager on some counting statistic that Kjerstad will exceed those guys in the major leagues next year? Games? Total bases? Home runs? Hits? Walks? Anything at all?

 

[Edit: I'd love to lose this bet, which is basically that Kjerstad has a Torkelson-like hitting profile AND he checks every box along the way, which basically entails blowing our staff away from the minute he shows up in whatever camp he's invited to.]

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3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

He hasn't taken a minor league at bat yet and you have him replacing one of our best hitters for next season?

Do you want to make a friendly wager on some counting statistic that Kjerstad will exceed those guys in the major leagues next year? Games? Total bases? Home runs? Hits? Walks? Anything at all?

 

[Edit: I'd love to lose this bet, which is basically that Kjerstad has a Torkelson-like hitting profile AND he checks every box along the way, which basically entails blowing our staff away from the minute he shows up in whatever camp he's invited to.]

Nope, because Elias has shown a strong tendency toward slow rolling promotions and prioritizing gaming service time.

Would you agree that if a bat first college player is selected high in the first round he should not need much time in the minors?

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Nope, because Elias has shown a strong tendency toward slow rolling promotions and prioritizing gaming service time.

Would you agree that if a bat first college player is selected high in the first round he should not need much time in the minors?

That's immaterial. What I'm saying is that if we trade Santander and Mancini, we're not replacing them for 2022, which means we're less likely to be competitive in 2022.

It's arguable whether we should do this, but the effect would be a less competitive team in 2022.

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