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Jammer7

Santander drawing interest

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1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

I think he accepted less with the first pick in order to overslot later. Didn’t like the pick when it was made and still think we passed on the BPA. I don’t have anything against Kjerstad and as an Oriole fan want him to be a good major league player. I thought it was pretty obvious the approach that the organization took....guess I’m mistaken 😉
 

BTW, I never buy anything that these guys tell reporters, media etc to justify a move.

Ok but keep going with your thought process.  He did it so he had money to use  later.  But he could have taken a lot of other players and done the same thing.  Gonzalez, Veen, Meyer, etc...all of them would have signed for under slot. 
 

Martin is really the only guy who you weren’t getting for under slot.

So, why did they take Kjerstad over the others?

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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok but keep going with your thought process.  He did it so he had money to use  later.  But he could have taken a lot of other players and done the same thing.  Gonzalez, Veen, Meyer, etc...all of them would have signed for under slot. 
 

Martin is really the only guy who you weren’t getting for under slot.

So, why did they take Kjerstad over the others?

Well maybe they tried in Pre draft discussions and had an idea of how much extra money they would likely need. You don’t know how much each guy was asking to be selected 2nd. I think it was a very well thought out approach. But, you can certainly put any twist on it you’d like. 

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Just now, Roll Tide said:

Well maybe they tried in Pre draft discussions and had an idea of how much extra money they would likely need. You don’t know how much each guy was asking to be selected 2nd. I think it was a very well thought out approach. But, you can certainly put any twist on it you’d like. 

Im Not putting any twist on it.  You are.

Im stating facts.  
 

You aren’t really giving any thoughts on anything.  You just want to tip Toe around the questions.  Yes, he was an underslot pick to spend money later.  That’s part of it.

But why else did they take him?  Do you think they punted on the pick?  Do you think they took a player they don’t think is good?  
 

I get it that your entire position is based on nerds rating players that they know very little about and that you can’t see past that but why Kjerstad?  What do you think they think of him?

Do you think Elias can’t evaluate talent?  Do you think that while his purpose has been to lose and get a high pick that he would then take that pick and on purposely screw it up?

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Im Not putting any twist on it.  You are.

Im stating facts.  
 

You aren’t really giving any thoughts on anything.  You just want to tip Toe around the questions.  Yes, he was an underslot pick to spend money later.  That’s part of it.

But why else did they take him?  Do you think they punted on the pick?  Do you think they took a player they don’t think is good?  
 

I get it that your entire position is based on nerds rating players that they know very little about and that you can’t see past that but why Kjerstad?  What do you think they think of him?

Do you think Elias can’t evaluate talent?  Do you think that while his purpose has been to lose and get a high pick that he would then take that pick and on purposely screw it up?

Pretty simple

1) Elias wanted to go underslot which eliminated Martin

2) Elias did not want to take a pitcher 1:2 because of his experience with the Astros

3) College position players are less risky than high school position players.

4) He thinks the SEC prepares players better than  other conferences.

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4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Im Not putting any twist on it.  You are.

Im stating facts.  
 

You aren’t really giving any thoughts on anything.  You just want to tip Toe around the questions.  Yes, he was an underslot pick to spend money later.  That’s part of it.

But why else did they take him?  Do you think they punted on the pick?  Do you think they took a player they don’t think is good?  
 

I get it that your entire position is based on nerds rating players that they know very little about and that you can’t see past that but why Kjerstad?  What do you think they think of him?

Do you think Elias can’t evaluate talent?  Do you think that while his purpose has been to lose and get a high pick that he would then take that pick and on purposely screw it up?

It’s really fascinating in all of this discussion that not one single person has complained that we didn’t take Lacy. I’m not unhappy with the selection we made at this time. I understand the process and I understand the logic, and I also understand that these guys know more than we do.

MEANWHILE, Santander.....

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44 minutes ago, Philip said:

It’s really fascinating in all of this discussion that not one single person has complained that we didn’t take Lacy. I’m not unhappy with the selection we made at this time. I understand the process and I understand the logic, and I also understand that these guys know more than we do.

MEANWHILE, Santander.....

Well as I said, I’m not considering the pitchers in this...Elias was never going to draft one.  Whether you agree with that (I personally do) or not isn’t the point.  He just wasn’t doing it.

So, it’s Kjerstad vs Martin vs Gonzalez vs Veen.  That’s the discussion.  Gonzalez and Veen would have signed under slot too.  Martin wouldn’t have.  

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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well as I said, I’m not considering the pitchers in this...Elias was never going to draft one.  Whether you agree with that (I personally do) or not isn’t the point.  He just wasn’t doing it.

So, it’s Kjerstad vs Martin vs Gonzalez vs Veen.  That’s the discussion.  Gonzalez and Veen would have signed under slot too.  Martin wouldn’t have.  

It's not that simple. What likely happened is that a certain $ amount was floated to a pool of players. A dollar amount that allowed him to make certain moves later in the draft as a strategy. For all we know, Kjerstad may have been the only one to agree. With that said, the general consensus, by a lot more than one site, is that Hjerstad is not up to the Martin,Lacy, Gonzales and maybe even Veen level, but he's not terribly far off and still a top 100-125 guy with a fairly low risk factor by prospect standards. 

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1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

It's not that simple. What likely happened is that a certain $ amount was floated to a pool of players. A dollar amount that allowed him to make certain moves later in the draft as a strategy. For all we know, Kjerstad may have been the only one to agree. With that said, the general consensus, by a lot more than one site, is that Hjerstad is not up to the Martin,Lacy, Gonzales and maybe even Veen level, but he's not terribly far off and still a top 100-125 guy with a fairly low risk factor by prospect standards. 

There is no site that said that.  That’s just made up.

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8 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Im Not putting any twist on it.  You are.

Im stating facts.  
 

You aren’t really giving any thoughts on anything.  You just want to tip Toe around the questions.  Yes, he was an underslot pick to spend money later.  That’s part of it.

But why else did they take him?  Do you think they punted on the pick?  Do you think they took a player they don’t think is good?  
 

I get it that your entire position is based on nerds rating players that they know very little about and that you can’t see past that but why Kjerstad?  What do you think they think of him?

Do you think Elias can’t evaluate talent?  Do you think that while his purpose has been to lose and get a high pick that he would then take that pick and on purposely screw it up?

How in the world can you speak in facts? Last time I checked you didn’t work for the Orioles. You are no more privy to their internal conversations. They wouldn’t tell you in public what they were really thinking, if they went cheap, how they really ranked Kjerstad or whatever.

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1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

How in the world can you speak in facts? Last time I checked you didn’t work for the Orioles. You are no more privy to their internal conversations. They wouldn’t tell you in public what they were really thinking, if they went cheap, how they really ranked Kjerstad or whatever.

Lol...ok, I’m done.  You are one of the most impossible people I have encountered with in terms of having a conversation.  It’s just not worth it.

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29 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol...ok, I’m done.  You are one of the most impossible people I have encountered with in terms of having a conversation.  It’s just not worth it.

So when I question what you claim to be facts this is the response I get? Whatever Bro! Part of the problem here is that you claim to have facts backed up by absolutely nothing and I’m being impossible? Ok ...LOL

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14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So when I question what you claim to be facts this is the response I get? Whatever Bro! Part of the problem here is that you claim to have facts backed up by absolutely nothing and I’m being impossible? Ok ...LOL

Yes because you aren’t even addressing the argument and what I’m saying.  You are just spouting pointless bs.

 

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12 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes because you aren’t even addressing the argument and what I’m saying.  You are just spouting pointless bs.

 

You are saying your position is fact! Based on what? Nothing that even hints of anything beyond your opinion. The fact that you’ve convinced yourself that it’s the truth is what’s truly troubling to me. 

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1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

You are saying your position is fact! Based on what? Nothing that even hints of anything beyond your opinion. The fact that you’ve convinced yourself that it’s the truth is what’s truly troubling to me. 

1) it’s true that Elias is an experienced and well thought of professional.

2) It’s true that they like Kjerstad.

3) it’s true that they view him as an advanced hitter

4). It’s true that they didn’t want to pay Martin full slot.

5) it’s true that they took Kjerstad and not the other college/HS bats.

6) It’s true that your whole opinion is based off of what he was ranked by people who have very little idea, especially after a 2020 season that saw these guys get very little Playing time.

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16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

1) it’s true that Elias is an experienced and well thought of professional.

2) It’s true that they like Kjerstad.

3) it’s true that they view him as an advanced hitter

4). It’s true that they didn’t want to pay Martin full slot.

5) it’s true that they took Kjerstad and not the other college/HS bats.

6) It’s true that your whole opinion is based off of what he was ranked by people who have very little idea, especially after a 2020 season that saw these guys get very little Playing time.


1) Yes ....but that doesn’t mean you know how they decided on Kjerstad internally. We know they wanted to overslot players later. The exact details can be speculated about but no one outside the organization can claim them as fact.

2) Yes ,...but again, The exact formula for why they like him over Martin or the Lacy in not known. We do know he accepted considerably less money than Martin wanted. And based on their signing bonuses with the teams that selected him it’s fair to assume who wanted fair slot value and who might have been willing to cut a deal. I think it’s fair to say that guys that signed for slot probably wanted slot at #2 as well. In my opinion, if you want a guy to sign for considerably less than slot you have to reach. 
 

3) Most scout sites agree....But, I’m not sure how this helps your argument. So was Torkleson and Martin. I’m not sure about the other hitters they passed on to get to Kjerstad. Also, I think the money issue is more conclusive.

4)Obviously there were more than just Martin that they didn’t want to pay number 2 money. Kjerstad accepted 7.5 million dollars less than #2 money. Why would he do that? We are talking a million or two that might make your argument more playable. It’s obvious they wanted to play the over slot game later. Because, that’s exactly what they did! 
 

5) I don’t think this proves anything! But, ok ....He was willing to accept 7.5 million less. 
 

6) Obviously! The scouting services are in the business of evaluating players. Obviously there are differing opinions, what’s your point? That you know better than them? Elias had $7.5 million dollars as a reason why he chose Kjerstad over the 8 or so other guys that most places had him rated.

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