TT: Scott used increased spin rate to dominate last year

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes, that's the gist of it.  The Orioles have been a poor team recently, with pitchers seemingly found under rocks and hitchhiking on I-695, and even they have half the bullpen that can throw 95+.  In 1990 if you had one guy who could throw 97 he'd be a demigod.

Remember Colt Griffin?  The Royals took him #9 overall in 2001, mainly on the strength of him hitting 100 mph once on a radar gun in a workout after his senior year in high school.  His arm disintegrated about 25 minutes later, and I don't think he even really knew how to pitch.  But today... would it even be a big deal if a kid once hit 100?  Every single team has some guys who've done that, and many of them on a regular basis.  In my lifetime an average fastball has to be up six mph or more.

Passan's The Arm doesn't seem all that dated to me and it was still considered a pretty big deal that Riley Pint(1-4 in 2016) was hitting 100 in HS.

[murph]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes, that's the gist of it.  The Orioles have been a poor team recently, with pitchers seemingly found under rocks and hitchhiking on I-695, and even they have half the bullpen that can throw 95+.  In 1990 if you had one guy who could throw 97 he'd be a demigod.

Remember Colt Griffin?  The Royals took him #9 overall in 2001, mainly on the strength of him hitting 100 mph once on a radar gun in a workout after his senior year in high school.  His arm disintegrated about 25 minutes later, and I don't think he even really knew how to pitch.  But today... would it even be a big deal if a kid once hit 100?  Every single team has some guys who've done that, and many of them on a regular basis.  In my lifetime an average fastball has to be up six mph or more.

And it worries me that pitchers are aiming for that 100 mark, heard on the Fan recently that DL Hall has hit 100 and 101 (and sounded like he was pushing himself to do so), my first thought was to wonder if TJ will come in the spring or summer for him.   I understand pitchers do need to throw hard these days, but this chasing the absolute max velocity can't be good for the arm.   I also understand human nature (well a bit anyway) that, that is not going to change.

You are probably right, I bet we hear about a phenom high school-er hitting 100 his freshman year or something in the near future. 

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Passan's The Arm doesn't seem all that dated to me and it was still considered a pretty big deal that Riley Pint(1-4 in 2016) was hitting 100 in HS.

Could be.  But the standards have clearly changed a lot.  When I was a kid in the 80s it was common for announcers to say someone throwing 86 had an average MLB fastball.  At the end of his career I bet Scott McGregor wasn't much over 80.  Now if someone is sitting under 90 mph you assume he's hurt or he's going to get shelled.  Almost every team has multiple guys on the staff who throw in the high 90s.  Mediocre starters like Kevin Gausman occasionally hit 98 or even 100.

This is how Dalkowski or Walter Johnson legends took hold.  They'd sometimes throw as hard as a modern pitcher, and compared to the high 70s, low 80s stuff batters were used to it was mind-boggling.

[OrioleDog]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When I was a kid in the 80s it was common for announcers to say someone throwing 86 had an average MLB fastball.  At the end of his career I bet Scott McGregor wasn't much over 80.

I'm going to mindfully refrain from looking up if Cesar Valdez throws harder than Mike Boddicker.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, OrioleDog said:

I'm going to mindfully refrain from looking up if Cesar Valdez throws harder than Mike Boddicker.

His average fastball was 85.5 mph last year, so maybe?  With that velocity in 2020 I think they need a battery of tests to see if he's throwing with the correct arm.

[Can_of_corn]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Could be.  But the standards have clearly changed a lot.  When I was a kid in the 80s it was common for announcers to say someone throwing 86 had an average MLB fastball.  At the end of his career I bet Scott McGregor wasn't much over 80.  Now if someone is sitting under 90 mph you assume he's hurt or he's going to get shelled.  Almost every team has multiple guys on the staff who throw in the high 90s.  Mediocre starters like Kevin Gausman occasionally hit 98 or even 100.

This is how Dalkowski or Walter Johnson legends took hold.  They'd sometimes throw as hard as a modern pitcher, and compared to the high 70s, low 80s stuff batters were used to it was mind-boggling.

Didn't they change the way they measured velocity between the 80's and now?  I think they did and it explains part of the velocity uptick.

[murph]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't they change the way they measured velocity between the 80's and now?  I think they did and it explains part of the velocity uptick.

Wait, like the technology was flawed and now it’s more accurate (completely understandable) but are you also saying pitchers may have thrown harder in the 80’s than measured?   Honestly curious and unsure of your meaning. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, murph said:

Wait, like the technology was flawed and now it’s more accurate (completely understandable) but are you also saying pitchers may have thrown harder in the 80’s than measured?   Honestly curious and unsure of your meaning. 

I did a quick search and answered my own question.  😉

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

Quote

The Pitch/FX system that MLB used in 2010 measured pitches at roughly 50 feet from home plate, which is where the 105.1 mph of Chapman’s fastball was measured. The current MLB Statcast system measures velocity as the pitch leaves the pitcher’s hand. MLB has gone back and recalibrated Pitch/FX pitches to convert them to their velocity at pitch release. That’s why Chapman’s fastest fastball found an extra .7 mph.

For decades, comparing pitch velocities has often been an apples-and-oranges discussion. The first radar guns that began appearing at ballparks in the late 1970s and early 1980s measured pitches much closer to the plate. The Speedgun, developed by Decatur Technologies (a long-time maker of police radar guns) measured closer to the plate than the JUGS gun. For scouts, the Speedgun was known as the “slow gun” while the JUGS gun registered faster readings and was the “fast gun.”

Then Stalker came out with its Pro Sports radar gun in the early 1990s. It measured velocity closer to the pitcher’s release point than the JUGS gun, so the JUGS flipped to being the slow gun.

A 90 mph pitch on a Speedgun could register at 92 on a JUGS gun and 93-94 mph on a Stalker. The tech continued to improve. A 94 mph pitch on the Stalker Pro registered as 95 on the Stalker Pro II.

So when you read of 85-90 mph fastballs from the early 1980s, realize that they would be registering much faster with current measurement tech. An 85 mph fastball (if registered by a Speedgun at the plate) would be roughly 93 mph if measured by Statcast out of the pitcher’s hand.

Sorry it's a big quote but it all seemed relevant to the conversation.

[Can_of_corn]

So the 94 or so Clemens was topping out at in the 80's would be pretty dang fast even by today's standards.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:04 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I did a quick search and answered my own question.  😉

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

Sorry it's a big quote but it all seemed relevant to the conversation.

That's good information, but I still refuse to believe that Scott McGregor's eephus fastball was going over 90 mph.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's good information, but I still refuse to believe that Scott McGregor's eephus fastball was going over 90 mph.

I wouldn't take the numbers being given as absolute facts, more like estimations.  I guess someone could dig some old guns out of mothballs and check.  I'd watch that youtube video.

[sevastras]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:54 AM, Tony-OH said:

https://www.orioleshangout.com/2021/02/25/tanner-scott-used-increased-spin-rates-to-dominate-last-year/

Yeah, but how was his time to the plate?

[Philip]

I have been very down on Scott, on the grounds that throwing wild trumps throwing hard every time. I am quite pleased that he seems to be showing meaningful improvement. I don’t know where he is in the arbitration process, but if we can polish him up a little bit shinier maybe we can trade him for something meaningful.

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, Philip said:

I have been very down on Scott, on the grounds that throwing wild trumps throwing hard every time. I am quite pleased that he seems to be showing meaningful improvement. I don’t know where he is in the arbitration process, but if we can polish him up a little bit shinier maybe we can trade him for something meaningful.

I think of Scott as a core player of the rebuild.  He will be arbitration eligible after the 2021 season.  He will not be a FA until after the 2024 season.     I don't see the O's trading him until 2023 unless someone blows them away with an offer.

Scott is one of the reasons the O's may turn things around in the year or two.

[scOtt]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I think of Scott as a core player of the rebuild.  He will be arbitration eligible after the 2021 season.  He will not be a FA until after the 2024 season.     I don't see the O's trading him until 2023 unless someone blows them away with an offer.

Scott is one of the reasons the O's may turn things around in the year or two.

*blush*

I'm not the man. I'm just one of the men.