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jamesenoch

NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Yeah but it’s hard to deny that overall the system was very weak. Most of the pundits had our system ranked in the bottom five.  Frankly our system may have been a bit underrated though.   Even Elias has said the existing talent level when he came in was a little better than he thought when he took the job.   

10 of the Os top 15 prospects, according to MLB.com, were here before Elias got here and it’s not like he did anything to get Rutschman.  
 

We need to stop acting like the cupboard was bare when he got here.

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

10 of the Os top 15 prospects, according to MLB.com, were here before Elias got here and it’s not like he did anything to get Rutschman.  
 

We need to stop acting like the cupboard was bare when he got here.

I would expect that given that he's only had two drafts, one class of which hasn't played a single minor league game (and the first very few). Other than the guys who were super highly regarded coming out, there's no way for his picks to climb into the top part of the system rankings. What he has done is expand the overall talent level of the system and make investments in the pipeline that should pay dividends moving forward (e.g., emphasis on the international amateur classes)

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8 hours ago, Frobby said:

What I don’t know is whether Forbes is using the rights fees that MASN has actually paid the Orioles, or what they’ve been ordered to pay.   Ironically, the effect of the arbitration decision will be to make it appear on the Forbes accounting as if the O’s made more money than previously reported, when in actuality the decision is costing them tens of millions of dollars (because the MASN profits are greatly reduced). 

I seriously doubt Forbes has access to any information not publicly available, unless the O’s or Nat’s wanted “it” to leak.  If we’re to assume that the Angelos are trying to trim the fat pending any sale, I don’t see any of the cost cutting measures addressing one of the biggest impediments, namely what will become of MASN.  Personally, I don’t see the owners allowing the current situation being pawned off onto new ownership.  It’s not in the league’s best interest having two teams tethered together in such a fashion.  The biggest problem is not the 2/3 vs 1/3 ownership in MASN.  That can be settled by cutting a check.  The real problem is the determination that the Os must receive the same FMV compensation as the Nats.  You can’t legislate what is market rate.  It’s what someone is willing to pay for it.  Something is going to have to break this logjam.

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8 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

10 of the Os top 15 prospects, according to MLB.com, were here before Elias got here and it’s not like he did anything to get Rutschman.  
 

We need to stop acting like the cupboard was bare when he got here.

This is 100% correct. I always thought the previous regime did better than what they were given credit for. 
 

That said that talent was in the lower levels of the organization. The major league team had aged out and the cupboard of ready talent was bare.  

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7 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

I would expect that given that he's only had two drafts, one class of which hasn't played a single minor league game (and the first very few). Other than the guys who were super highly regarded coming out, there's no way for his picks to climb into the top part of the system rankings. What he has done is expand the overall talent level of the system and make investments in the pipeline that should pay dividends moving forward (e.g., emphasis on the international amateur classes)

That’s fine..but again, let’s not act like the cupboard was bare when he got here.

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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s fine..but again, let’s not act like the cupboard was bare when he got here.

He also had a number of useful parts he has traded off. 

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

He also had a number of useful parts he has traded off. 

You don’t get true impact prospects for simply useful players like Cobb, Givens, Castro etc unless you really nail it. Let’s not act like these were easy layups sure to bring back future first division regulars. The Orioles did themselves a disservice by not trading their truly elite players early enough but they also did Elias a disservice by letting Duquette make the 2018 trades which were pretty awful.

Truly the only thing the Orioles had done to set up the new regime for success was suck enough for them to land Adley. Outside of that, the franchise was a total train wreck. 

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3 minutes ago, LTO's said:

You don’t get true impact prospects for simply useful players like Cobb, Givens, Castro etc unless you really nail it. Let’s not act like these were easy layups sure to bring back future first division regulars. The Orioles did themselves a disservice by not trading their truly elite players early enough but they also did Elias a disservice by letting Duquette make the 2018 trades which were pretty awful.

Truly the only thing the Orioles had done to set up the new regime for success was suck enough for them to land Adley. Outside of that, the franchise was a total train wreck. 

Bundy was a useful piece.  I also wouldn't group Givens with Cobb.

I don't fault the job Dan did in the trades, I'm sure he was directed to, for instance, dump O'Day's contract instead of getting more highly regarded players.

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5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

You don’t get true impact prospects for simply useful players like Cobb, Givens, Castro etc unless you really nail it. Let’s not act like these were easy layups sure to bring back future first division regulars. The Orioles did themselves a disservice by not trading their truly elite players early enough but they also did Elias a disservice by letting Duquette make the 2018 trades which were pretty awful.

Truly the only thing the Orioles had done to set up the new regime for success was suck enough for them to land Adley. Outside of that, the franchise was a total train wreck. 

No but you can get useful role Players that prevent you from pissing away money on aging mediocre vet talent.

Those useful pieces are here in large part to what Elias walked into..again, which was not a bare cupboard despite the narrative that some want to push.

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7 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Shoulda traded Machado & Britton post 2016....

I feel like I need to say that at least once a year.

Yep..said it a bunch on here.  Arguably the biggest mistake the organization has ever made.

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Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yep..said it a bunch on here.  Arguably the biggest mistake the organization has ever made.

Somewhere on the list, but after the Davis contract.

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Just now, LookinUp said:

Somewhere on the list, but after the Davis contract.

No way..the Davis contract isn’t nearly as close to as bad as that decision.

The narrative surrounding the Davis contract is largely bs.  While it was always dumb to give him that contract no one thought he would be this bad, no matter how against the deal you were.

Also, while he carries a high salary, his salary doesn’t stop this team from doing anything.  They may say that it does and try to act like it does but that’s all window dressing to fool the fans and for the current leadership to throw themselves a pity party.

Trading Manny and Britton at that point would have likely been franchise changing moves.  Elite talent coming back..guys under team control for years, making little to no money for most of it.  Foundation, core type guys.  
 

That easily trumps the Davis contract.  It’s not even close.

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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No way..the Davis contract isn’t nearly as close to as bad as that decision.

The narrative surrounding the Davis contract is largely bs.  While it was always dumb to give him that contract no one thought he would be this bad, no matter how against the deal you were.

Also, while he carries a high salary, his salary doesn’t stop this team from doing anything.  They may say that it does and try to act like it does but that’s all window dressing to fool the fans and for the current leadership to throw themselves a pity party.

Trading Manny and Britton at that point would have likely been franchise changing moves.  Elite talent coming back..guys under team control for years, making little to no money for most of it.  Foundation, core type guys.  
 

That easily trumps the Davis contract.  It’s not even close.

I think that if Davis hadn't signed the overall arc of the team would be pretty similar. 

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37 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if Davis hadn't signed the overall arc of the team would be pretty similar. 

Certainly.  That team got old and bad, fast.  Davis not being here wouldn't have made a difference.

 

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