Jump to content
now

Means, Harvey, and pray for rain?

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Philip said:

I don’t have much respect for our manager, but it’s curious that he has not yet picked up on the fact that Lopez is a disaster the third time through the order, war that all of his starters can’t be counted on for more than a certain number of pitches.

With that in mind he should be making changes now. Start using the piggyback system, or bring in a starter to replace Lopez, and let him go to the Bullpen, where he might be successful

IMO Hyde is patient and knows what to expect from his young starters.  Inconsistence.  You are not being patience and expect too much.  I know its not has much fun for you as having 5 good veteran starters but that is not what a building process is all about.

Lopez is a stopgap starter that will move to the pen in time.   But not now.  The fact that he can give the team 4 good innings most starts is a plus for the rotation.   Its something Hyde is not getting from his young starters.

I think it will be better for you if you remind yourself this is a building team.  Enjoy the good parts like Means, Mullins, Hays and expect inconsistences  from others young players that require patience.   

JMO

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are dreaming if they think we’re going to get much for Matt Harvey in a trade.   He’s strictly a rental, and looks like an averagish starting pitcher.   And yes, some team will want that if he’s able to keep it up, but I doubt we’d get a top 150 prospect for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wildcard said:

IMO Hyde is patient and knows what to expect from his young starters.  Inconsistence.  You are not being patience and expect too much.  I know its not has much fun for you as having 5 good veteran starters but that is not what a building process is all about.

Lopez is a stopgap starter that will move to the pen in time.   But not now.  The fact that he can give the team 4 good innings most starts is a plus for the rotation.   Its something Hyde is not getting from his young starters.

I think it will be better for you if you remind yourself this is a building team.  Enjoy the good parts like Means, Mullins, Hays and expect inconsistences  from others young players that require patience.   

JMO

I appreciate your optimism, but Hyde knows The limits of his pitchers Far better than we do, and yet he almost always ignores them. He gets no passes when he lets a guy in too long and he gets shelled because he should know better.

Lopez is a known quantity, the only justification for him remaining in the rotation, is that the guys at Norfolk aren’t ready, but even then, Wells or Plutko, for instance, Would be worthwhile alternatives Even though each one is doing well as a reliever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I think people are dreaming if they think we’re going to get much for Matt Harvey in a trade.   He’s strictly a rental, and looks like an averagish starting pitcher.   And yes, some team will want that if he’s able to keep it up, but I doubt we’d get a top 150 prospect for him.

Cashner-like return is probably the best we could realistically hope for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Philip said:

I appreciate your optimism, but Hyde knows The limits of his pitchers Far better than we do, and yet he almost always ignores them. He gets no passes when he lets a guy in too long and he gets shelled because he should know better.

Lopez is a known quantity, the only justification for him remaining in the rotation, is that the guys at Norfolk aren’t ready, but even then, Wells or Plutko, for instance, Would be worthwhile alternatives Even though each one is doing well as a reliever.

Hyde has let Lopez face 4 batters the third time through on the season in the 4 games Lopez has pitched well and into the 5th inning. So he knows that limitation of the third time through and has pulled right around that point everytime.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Cashner-like return is probably the best we could realistically hope for.

I will say we might do a little better only because Harvey is much cheaper ($1 mm salary).  But Cashner was having a very good year (122 ERA+) when we traded him, even if it was questionable whether he’d sustain it for the rest of the season.

Harvey’s got at least two more months in an Orioles uniform, so we’ll see how he does between now and then.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I will say we might do a little better only because Harvey is much cheaper ($1 mm salary).  But Cashner was having a very good year (122 ERA+) when we traded him, even if it was questionable whether he’d sustain it for the rest of the season.

Harvey’s got at least two more months in an Orioles uniform, so we’ll see how he does between now and then.  

Good point on the salary...Cashner with a better recent history going for him. 
 

Overall, I wouldn’t expect too much different but I guess it depends on how well Harvey looks.  He needs to be much more like his previous start than his most recent one for us to get anything more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philip said:

I appreciate your optimism, but Hyde knows The limits of his pitchers Far better than we do, and yet he almost always ignores them. He gets no passes when he lets a guy in too long and he gets shelled because he should know better.

Lopez is a known quantity, the only justification for him remaining in the rotation, is that the guys at Norfolk aren’t ready, but even then, Wells or Plutko, for instance, Would be worthwhile alternatives Even though each one is doing well as a reliever.

Plutko and Wells would probably both be worse starters than Matt Harvey.  Plutko has started 36 games in the majors and has an career ERA of 5.10 in those starts.  He is better as a reliever where he has a 3.40 career ERA.  Doesn't matter which Wells you are talking about, neither has pitched about AA before this season.    

Matt Harvey's ERA since he joined the O's and is taking advantage of the O's analytic and Holt has an ERA a little above 4.00.  It would be better than that if the pen would stop allowing his inherited runners to score.

Hyde absolutely knows that Lopez is better the first 4 innings but he is trying to get him to learn to go 5 innings and become more valuable.   Holt reworked Lopez delivery in ST and that has helped him a lot so far this season in the first 4 innings of his starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Plutko and Wells would probably both be worse starters than Matt Harvey.  Plutko has started 36 games in the majors and has an career ERA of 5.10 in those starts.  He is better as a reliever where he has a 3.40 career ERA.  Doesn't matter which Wells you are talking about, neither has pitched about AA before this season.    

Matt Harvey's ERA since he joined the O's and is taking advantage of the O's analytic and Holt has an ERA a little above 4.00.  It would be better than that if the pen would stop allowing his inherited runners to score.

Hyde absolutely knows that Lopez is better the first 4 innings but he is trying to get him to learn to go 5 innings and become more valuable.   Holt reworked Lopez delivery in ST and that has helped him a lot so far this season in the first 4 innings of his starts.

Hyde should be aware of both pitch limits and times through the order. If Lopez, or anybody, hits the wall at 70 pitches, But gets twice through the order at 60, there’s no danger and letting him start another inning. But you should do so prepared to pull him instantly. Hyde doesn’t do that. He pulls his starter more quickly than Buck ever did, for which we praise God, but he still waits too long.

I don’t know why you’re mentioning Harvey, we’re not asking Wells or Plutko to replace Harvey, but Lopez, So it’s meaningless to bring up Harvey. As to whether Wells or Plutko would be better than Lopez, I can’t think of any reason why we shouldn’t find out. And I can think of lots of reasons why we should. Lopez as a starter can be replaced with almost anyone, Unless you’re going to the buddy system, which is certainly worth a try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Think Elias could package Matt Harvey, Severino and Stewart  and get something better?

Not really

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Think Elias could package Matt Harvey, Severino and Stewart  and get something better?

No.

A beyond horrible catcher, a recovering but still mediocre starter, and an inconsistent outfielder who looks like he’s dancing with two left feet.

What do you think Mike could get back for such a package?

How about nothing?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2021 Minor League Depth Chart

2021 Prospect Power Rankings

2020 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2020 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • Man I hope it works out for this kid. He's so close.
    • Right. I used to prefer Hall because of his actual elite upside as a lefty. His control issues became more apparent as Rodriguez's upside started to emerge as elite too, so I flipped. I know elite's a word that we shouldn't throw around a ton, but the upside of these two is off the charts and they're at a better spot arguably than any group we've had here in a long time. Think of this list of misses and good but not great guys. Loewen was supposed to be awesome, but never performed. Matt Riley was hyped, but rushed and seemingly didn't have the maturity for the gig. Matusz was a top pick, but without elite stuff. Arrieta was pretty electric in the minors and was grouped with Matusz/Hernandez and others, so that was certainly a nice crop. Gausman didn't have the 3rd pitch. Harvey does have an elite arm was hurt almost from the jump. Even Bundy's crazy elite profile was tempered almost immediately by velocity drops and shoulder issues. Then there's Hobgoo..... These two have crossed time/stuff/performance hurdles that many of our other guys haven't. They're not here yet. They have risk, and Hall still does with command for sure, but they're the best top 2 pitching prospects we've paired since McDonald/Mussina, IMO.
    • We came back to win one of the three, so that one probably didn’t register with you.   That was the April 29 game against the Yankees where Mullins hit a sac fly in extra innings to win the game, so everyone left happy despite the blown save in the 9th. The first blown save was against Boston on April 10 and came in the top of the 9th.    We didn’t score in the bottom half and then lost in extra innings.    So, this is the first blown save that resulted in an immediate, walk-off loss.    Those always burn the most.    
    • I've been imagining an unrealistic best case scenario where we hover around .500 for the next few months and then call up Hall, Rutschman, and Jones. Add in a healthy Santander and I could see a pretty decent team. Hall is certainly doing his part, and Santander is back soon. But Adley's bat and Jones' glove are squashing that fantasy. It's weird, if we can't be good this year I'd just assume we lock in one more high draft slot. Which all means we'll end up with a blah record and a blah pick of course.
    • Gunnar Henderson is tearing it up. Even if he moves to 3B there's Westburg.
    • My 'optimist' take is that the O's are identifying and working through his issues now, whereas Wieters was able to get through the minors on talent alone and never did address his swing path issues.   
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...