Jump to content
Greenpastures23

Is this team bad enough for the number 1 pick?

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We didn’t tank at all.   We went into 2018 trying to contend, and won 47 games.   It wasn’t intentional, except for the July 2018 sell-off when we were already playing .300ish baseball four months into the season.

 

I’m not sure, the official line may have been “contention” But I screamed constantly at the time that there was no attempt made during the off-season to assemble any kind of worthwhile team. We loaded ourselves up with DHs who could not hit. And even if a couple of them were possible at first base, you can’t have four first baseman on your roster. There was no attempt at all to assemble any pitching depth, not even someone to cover for Tillman, who was so bad that nobody was allowed to watch him pitch, and we had to rely on Buck’s reports.

I remember the Beats constantly asking Buck about the bad play, and he constantly said, “this is who we have.” Yet no one ever asked him WHY this is who we have. No one asked WHY that problem wasn’t dealt with in the offseason. Never asked Buck or Dan, which is why Roch and Conally and the crowd are full of “slight regard” as Henry’s messenger reports to the Prince in Henry V.

The catastrophe was so complete I have often wondered if the incompetent off-season was Dan’s deliberate revenge.

Grant Brisbee Wrote a highly detailed, extremely witty, and brilliant article about the Royals and the Orioles and what the team did after 2014. He lists every single major transactions each team made, and regardless of how much of a Dan apologist one is, it  is impossible to read that article and not conclude  that he was incompetent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We didn’t tank at all.   We went into 2018 trying to contend, and won 47 games.   It wasn’t intentional, except for the July 2018 sell-off when we were already playing .300ish baseball four months into the season.

 

You are correct of course, at least at the start of the year.  Got my seasons mixed up.  By July the tank was full on though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m not sure, the official line may have been “contention” But I screamed constantly at the time that there was no attempt made during the off-season to assemble any kind of worthwhile team. 

Not saying they did a good job, but they spent $56 mm on four years of Alex Cobb and $16 mm on two years of Andrew Cashner.  Those are not moves a team makes if they’re tanking.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Not saying they did a good job, but they spent $56 mm on four years of Alex Cobb and $16 mm on two years of Andrew Cashner.  Those are not moves a team makes if they’re tanking.   

Those are moves a team makes if it is stupid. I don’t think I said that they were tanking, I said they were incompetent And the debate has been who is responsible for the incompetent decisions, I don’t think anybody denied that they were bad decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Frobby said:

We didn’t tank at all.   We went into 2018 trying to contend, and won 47 games.   It wasn’t intentional, except for the July 2018 sell-off when we were already playing .300ish baseball four months into the season.

 

I still can't quite get over just how awful those trades were. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Philip said:

There was no attempt at all to assemble any pitching depth, not even someone to cover for Tillman, who was so bad that nobody was allowed to watch him pitch, and we had to rely on Buck’s reports.

I feel like the Brady Cobb recruitment was the centerpiece of the 2017-2018 offseason plan, and Cobb hoped for a suitor anywhere else before grudgingly accepting Brady's $57M.  It was an offseason with that $15M/year extra for Adam/Zach/Manny's last run that just took forever to get spent because of Cobb's Camden-fearing nature.

The Either/Or I remember from that February/March was Lance Lynn, who ended up taking 1/12 from the Twins on March 12th.   He was bad too that year, but should outearn Cobb by a little bit this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Didn't you say prior to last year that the O's absolutely had to tank for Rocker because he was a once-in-a-generation talent?

These once-in-a-generation talents sure do seem to come around often.  I remember when we were supposed to tank for Pedro Alvarez as well.  

The O's still had the honor of having the great Pedro Alvarez on the team w/o even drafting him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We certainly look bad enough the past three weeks. It depends on what trades Mike Elias makes, which players get called up and what injuries are incurred. We don't score many runs, our starters (aside from Means) rarely finish five innings, and our pen is falling apart. We play 76 games in the AL East. We are looking at a top 3-4 pick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst record in MLB.

Lost 9 of their last 10.

Still have 53 games left against AL East teams. 

I think we'd easily be the betting favorites for next year's #1 spot in the draft. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Greenpastures23 said:

First pick isn't a bad consolation

Its not the first pick that I am worried about.  Its that Elias clearly thought that he had a more complete team than he did.  As noted by others in this thread, not have the self awareness to know what your team is can destroy the competitive future of the franchise.

Its like the White Sox trading Tatis Jr for James Shields.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its not the first pick that I am worried about.  Its that Elias clearly thought that he had a more complete team than he did.  As noted by others in this thread, not have the self awareness to know what your team is can destroy the competitive future of the franchise.

Its like the White Sox trading Tatis Jr for James Shields.  

I’m sorry, that is a terrible analogy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its not the first pick that I am worried about.  Its that Elias clearly thought that he had a more complete team than he did.  

Huh?  He has said he doesn’t care about wins yet you think he thought this team was more complete?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Its not the first pick that I am worried about.  Its that Elias clearly thought that he had a more complete team than he did.  As noted by others in this thread, not have the self awareness to know what your team is can destroy the competitive future of the franchise.

Its like the White Sox trading Tatis Jr for James Shields.  

Or he wasn't being 100% truthful in an interview.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2021 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2021 Orioles Stats

2021 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • I used to see Metallica's guitar tech (a British guy) over near Chapel Hill NC where some guys race go-karts for fun. It's way out in the woods on a red clay home-made track. About half the people who race are either guitarists or recording engineers. I haven't been in awhile. I was not particularly good at go-kart racing. I got lapped a good bit!
    • There used to be a good record shop at Fell's Point, but it's been a long time since I was in there. I live in NC, so I'm not always record shopping when I'm in town. I did find a great book on the band Big Star while in there once. 
    • Recent NBA picks don't matter that much to an incoming coach.  They're attributed to the coach that they worked under, not the school IMO.   Texas Tech... their athletic budget is 2/3 of Maryland's and theyre in the red according to publicly available data.  Compare that to Maryland, 5 million in the black. They cannot outbid Maryland and don't have as many built in recruiting advantages.  And they've already proven that they can't necessarily keep a successful coach, or replace said departure with a splashy hire.   FSU... ehh.  It's a football school, they have older facilities, a $30 million deficit in the athletic department, and if Hamilton leaves/retires I really don't think they're beating Maryland for a job.  I 100% agree that they have been more successful recently.  But no championships, and their only f4 was in the 70s.  Not exactly a powerhouse history.   And as I said, other analysts like Jeff Goodman, Rob dauster, John Fanta, Matt Norlander, Jon Rothstein have gone on record saying his is anywhere from a top-15 to top-25 HC position.  And those guys are not affiliated with Maryland.   Edit to add:  how many years of suck does it take for a school to drop off the face of the earth?  Indiana and UCLA haven't, and Indiana especially has been a hot mess for God knows how long.  The potential matters a lot. And I agree that Maryland fans are a bit delusional at times, but that (possibly delusional) expectation of greatness is also part of what drives the potential of the school.  And that potential is proven, not hypothetical.
    • Now is a good time to start this discussion. Heading into this season, what players have value or the potential to create trade value? It's obvious we probably have another year or two of selling a couple pieces. Below is my best guess as to who Elias would be willing to move for the right price. Cedric Mullins - Has a high price tag obviously. However, we know this year is a wash competitively, could be better next year, but most likely not play off bound. That would leave Mullins here for 24 and 25 to realistically compete for the playoffs. If we can get back multiple pieces in a trade now that could help us compete by that time AND can be controlled several years beyond, it's worth listening. Will he cheaper in the meantime as you avoid Mullins arbitration years. Good sell high candidate too John Means - Same as above. Plus Means is a bit older, probably at peak value especially if he had a good start to 2022. If you had a solid return on both Means and Mullins, it could infuse the upcoming wave of talent that could make us competitive for years Trey Mancini - Best case scenario, he looks like 2019 Trey and we swing him at the deadline for a solid prospect or 2.  If he plays like he did last year, you might get a Andrew Cashner type return Austin Hays - He's currently not on the block, nor should he be, but by chance he has a blow up season like Mullins did last year, then he would share the same circumstances in regards to service time as Mullins. We'll see if we cross that bridge Cole Sulser - He was good last year. He's controllable but a tad older than the Youth movement coming, so probably reaching peak value this year Anthony Santander- Already on 4th service year. Has shown flashes of what he could be. If he stays healthy and breaks out, he could fetch a really good return. This would be the year of peak value IF he performs. Tanner Scott - Seems to always be on the cusp of a break out. If he can harness the fb and slider a little more, some will want the LHP at the deadline Paul Fry- Depends on which Paul Fry shows up to camp. He could have been traded last year but Elias didn't like the return. He'll probably take it this year Dillon Tate - No rush to trade, but saw his name come up last year. Needs to get better, and if he does, he might be worth trading as he has similar arbitration status as Mullins and Hays Roughned Odor - If by chance he figures it out and hits a bunch of fingers, he'd be a trade deadline guy, but that was our hope for Maikel Franco Jordan Lyles- Apparently there's a pretty strong market for 5.00 era innings eaters. Another potential trade deadline guy, ala Cashner  Jorge Lopez - They paid a decent penny to bring back the inconsistent starter. If he thrives in a relief role, now would be a good time to trade the soon to be 29 year old in his fourth year of service  DJ Stewart - It's a now or never year for Stewart. He probably has a better chance of getting cut than traded as it stands.  Seems to have the OBP tool, has to hit now. If he can be an .800 OPS OF/DH, he essentially becomes a poor man's Kyle Schwarber. At 28, he'd be a peak value should he perform.          
    • Well, agree to disagree.  
    • The ACC that everyone loved is dead.  The old 9 team conference with true round-robin died long before Maryland left.  The ACC thought so much of Maryland that they decided Pitt was going to be its natural rival and wasn't going to ensure any annual home and homes with UNC, Duke, State, UVA, etc..  It was the last straw from a conference that never cared about Maryland. The move to the Big Ten has been great from an academic sense (look at the expansion of the engineering program), and the basketball has been fine (I'd argue that the BIG 10 has been deeper consistently than the ACC since Maryland left).    
    • I can't be the only one that thinks 6-9 is a black hole
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...