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I’ve pretty much stopped watching

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43 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Once again, since folks don't seem to get it, I'm not advocating for free agent acquisitions.

 

So it’s all about Adley right now? Not being snarky being serious. 
 

I was 100% on board with what Elias is doing but I do think coming off a year like last one he took a heck of a risk with the  pitching staff. There aren’t any names I have off the top of my head where I’m like he made sense. Also not happy we don’t have a real 2nd baseman. Franco hasn’t panned out but I am fine with that type of move. 

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4 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Have to say I’m a little surprised. Not with the sentiment, but that it’s coming from you. I get it, though. 

For me, the only way I can justify watching is that usually at least one guy is doing/has done something that was positive. 

For much of the season it was Mullins, Means, or Mancini and lately it’s been Mountcastle. A little with Harvey, too. 

My strongest criticism would be get more of the young guys up. Even if it’s just Lowther or Wells. At least that way they know what they have. 

You can keep even the casual fan interested w/ the hope of the future. That doesn’t include Matt Harvey or Tom Eshelman.

 

I get wanting to see the young players but that doesn’t mean they don’t know what they have. You can be aware of someone’s skills or flaws without them being in the big leagues. There are reasons these guys aren’t up here. 
 

Last year impacted all teams. Unfortunately for the Orioles the 2020 AAA rotation never happened. It’s not like this batch of arms in Baltimore or Norfolk has been pitching at a high level at AAA for over a year. 

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3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

So it’s all about Adley right now? Not being snarky being serious. 
 

I was 100% on board with what Elias is doing but I do think coming off a year like last one he took a heck of a risk with the  pitching staff. There aren’t any names I have off the top of my head where I’m like he made sense. Also not happy we don’t have a real 2nd baseman. Franco hasn’t panned out but I am fine with that type of move. 

I'd be aggressive with more than just Adley. 

I'm serious as a heart attack that I would look into giving Gunnar the right 10 year deal and bring him up.  Diaz would have been in the majors last year. 

I'd even look into promoting someone like Maverick.  Can his bat develop in the minors?  If we don't think it can, call him up, the glove is ready.

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46 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Baseball cannot continue to tailor and market the game to people who want it to be exactly like it's 1930 or 1960 or whatever.  Those people either aren't around anymore, or soon won't be.  Also, standing pat on rules and changes for a century has resulted in a game that looks nothing like it did 50 or 100 years ago.  You can drive the changes, or you can let them just kind of happen.  And when you let things go you end up with 3-4 hour games of mostly strikeouts and home runs.

Manfred's major flaw is that he changes things around the margins that have little effect.  But he almost has to because every change is judged on how different it is from when Mickey and Willie were playing.  Runner-on-second-in-extras and seven-inning doubleheaders are deeply loathed by the traditionalists, imagine if he tried some changes that would actually result in lower Ks and faster-paced games.  Well... the sticky stuff ban should lead to fewer Ks, and the Twitterverse thinks checking pitchers for the banned substances is ridiculous and insane.

The world has changed so much. TV shows that were canceled in the 80’s had ratings TV execs would kill for now. Growing up in the 80’s like many I didn’t have cable. The Orioles were on Channel 2 about 50 games a year. It was a big deal when a game was on. You didn’t have anything close to the entertainment options of today. It was either what’s on over the air or home movie rentals. Baseball was a radio sport and big games on National TV and the playoffs. 
 

Baseball is in a tricky spot. The NFL is so popular it’s flaws for the most part are ignored. The media protects the NFL because they use their programming to drive their other programs. Baseball is all regional now except the playoffs which go head to head with NFL and College football. 
 

They need the product to be as entertaining as possible knowing a 162 game sport will never be like football. It can’t be. I’m curious how they set up the next CBA in regards to the playoffs. Hope they don’t water down the meaning of the regular season.

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4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd be aggressive with more than just Adley. 

I'm serious as a heart attack that I would look into giving Gunnar the right 10 year deal and bring him up.  Diaz would have been in the majors last year. 

I'd even look into promoting someone like Maverick.  Can his bat develop in the minors?  If we don't think it can, call him up, the glove is ready.

I think Adley is a different topic. Highly advanced college player. He certainly would be an improvement over what they have now. I do think if last year didn’t happen he would be up here. I get both sides of the Adley conversation. 
 

Gunnar has K’d in all of his at bats at High A except one so far. Has walked a bunch. Yes I know SSS to say the least.  I think it’s a little early for something like that. I do agree though trying stuff like that in general with certain players. I think he is a little young and inexperienced for that right now. In 2 years though that is different. 
 

It feels like Diaz has been at AA for 7 years. He needs to be up here. I like both Hays and Santander but neither is healthy right now. Hays did finally have some good at bats last night. DJ is what he is. 
 

The new CBA will have to address the service time issue. 

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It has definitely hurt that Means and Zimmerman (hey, he was pitching relatively well) have been hurt.  
 

But Kremer and Akin have to be better.  I’m not expecting anything more than back of rotation type stuff but the games shouldn’t be over by the second inning either.  Both of them have had good people careers up until this point.  Maybe all they do is go 4-5 innings and give up 3 runs but that at least keeps you in the game.  They aren’t even competitive in some of these starts.
 

Maybe Holt isn’t some wizard after all?

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59 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Baseball cannot continue to tailor and market the game to people who want it to be exactly like it's 1930 or 1960 or whatever.  Those people either aren't around anymore, or soon won't be.  Also, standing pat on rules and changes for a century has resulted in a game that looks nothing like it did 50 or 100 years ago.  You can drive the changes, or you can let them just kind of happen.  And when you let things go you end up with 3-4 hour games of mostly strikeouts and home runs.

Manfred's major flaw is that he changes things around the margins that have little effect.  But he almost has to because every change is judged on how different it is from when Mickey and Willie were playing.  Runner-on-second-in-extras and seven-inning doubleheaders are deeply loathed by the traditionalists, imagine if he tried some changes that would actually result in lower Ks and faster-paced games.  Well... the sticky stuff ban should lead to fewer Ks, and the Twitterverse thinks checking pitchers for the banned substances is ridiculous and insane.

I knew I would get you out on that point. As always, I respect your thoughts. I miss the game the way it was, sure, and I lamented that. I know change must happen. The rapid nature of it is difficult and leads to many having a distaste for the undulating nature of the game they barely recognize from the game they played 20-30 years ago. The PED’s and nerd ball strategies (I mean that in the nicest way) have lead to the three outcomes that do bore the heck out of me as well. 

I enjoy a great pitching match up, a well played 2-1 game. I am a bit of a romantic that way. I sometimes enjoy a slug fest too, but not every night. I love extra base hits in the gap, watching a guy steal and make great defensive plays. I miss watching a guy pitch seven innings every fifth night out, and occasionally going nine. I miss seeing a guy play his entire career with one organization None of that is a part of the game anymore. So be it. I do miss it.

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23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd be aggressive with more than just Adley. 

I'm serious as a heart attack that I would look into giving Gunnar the right 10 year deal and bring him up.  Diaz would have been in the majors last year. 

I'd even look into promoting someone like Maverick.  Can his bat develop in the minors?  If we don't think it can, call him up, the glove is ready.

Yea im not bringing Gunnar up yet.  He needs to show more progression in the minors.

That being said, i also don’t care if he sees AAA And if by this point in the season next year, he has played well and is doing good things in Bowie, I have no issue calling him up.  That’s likely a lot more aggressive than most people would be.

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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It has definitely hurt that Means and Zimmerman (hey, he was pitching relatively well) have been hurt.  
 

But Kremer and Akin have to be better.  I’m not expecting anything more than back of rotation type stuff but the games shouldn’t be over by the second inning either.  Both of them have had good people careers up until this point.  Maybe all they do is go 4-5 innings and give up 3 runs but that at least keeps you in the game.  They aren’t even competitive in some of these starts.
 

Maybe Holt isn’t some wizard after all?

It’s impossible to know the answer but last year in my mind really hurt this batch of arms. You are basically at the doorstep of the big leagues and then the entire season is disrupted. It doesn’t mean had last year been normal all these guys are pitching well but it does mean they would have been better off obviously. 
 

The type of arms these guys are with their lack of experience would not be on a contender. Here they make it out of necessity and if they fail there is no fallback option. It’s the same type of unproven arms. 

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10 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don’t know why you guys are saying you’re done or this season is killing it for you, etc. 
 

First, that’s not true. If you’re on here, you’re paying attention in some way, shape or form. 
 

Second, most of us survived ‘98-2011. If you can survive that, this is a cakewalk so far. 
 

Third, some of us survived ‘86-‘91. ‘89 is in there but it’s offset by ‘88. Anyway, that stretch of team history was a quick fall from grace after the ‘83 title. 
 

For most of my life this team has been complete crap. But I figure I’ve got enough time, energy, emotion and money invested, I deserve to see it through. 

Let’s be clear: I still follow the team intensely.   I’m just not watching many of the games.   Great example the last two nights.   Had something going on in the early evening and by the time I checked the scores they were 13-0 and 9-0, respectively.   Why turn those on?   I guarantee you if they were winning or at least close I would have tuned in. 
 

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1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

It’s impossible to know the answer but last year in my mind really hurt this batch of arms. You are basically at the doorstep of the big leagues and then the entire season is disrupted. It doesn’t mean had last year been normal all these guys are pitching well but it does mean they would have been better off obviously. 
 

The type of arms these guys are with their lack of experience would not be on a contender. Here they make it out of necessity and if they fail there is no fallback option. It’s the same type of unproven arms. 

Sure it hurt them…but they aren’t different than anyone else.  Everyone got hurt and not everyone is failing as epically as these guys are.

The reality has always been that the pen is most likely the destination for them but there was a chance at them throwing 140–170 innings of sub 4.5 ERA ball.  They should start the rest of the year but if you aren’t seeing progress, I am moving them to the pen next year.  These are not young guys.  If they can’t develop and show improvement now, I don’t see much hope to think they will in the coming years.

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11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure it hurt them…but they aren’t different than anyone else.  Everyone got hurt and not everyone is failing as epically as these guys are.

The reality has always been that the pen is most likely the destination for them but there was a chance at them throwing 140–170 innings of sub 4.5 ERA ball.  They should start the rest of the year but if you aren’t seeing progress, I am moving them to the pen next year.  These are not young guys.  If they can’t develop and show improvement now, I don’t see much hope to think they will in the coming years.

Expecting that type of production coming off a disjointed season in the AL East is a big ask. I don’t see other teams throwing the type of arms we are out there. These are not elite talents. These are the type of guys where you hope one becomes decent.  It’s not like we have 4 solid starters and there is an open competition for the 5th spot. Harvey and Lopez are in the rotation. We have no safety net. 
 

Now sometimes out of necessity to protect the staff these guys are going back and forth from AAA to Baltimore. 
 

The lack of development last year with this collection of arms is obvious.  

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1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

Expecting that type of production coming off a disjointed season in the AL East is a big ask. I don’t see other teams throwing the type of arms we are out there. These are not elite talents. These are the type of guys where you hope one becomes decent.  It’s not like we have 4 solid starters and there is an open competition for the 5th spot. Harvey and Lopez are in the rotation. We have no safety net. 
 

Now sometimes out of necessity to protect the staff these guys are going back and forth from AAA to Baltimore. 
 

The lack of development last year with this collection of arms is obvious.  

Expecting what type of production?  4-5 IP and 3 runs allowed?  You think that’s a big ask?

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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Expecting what type of production?  4-5 IP and 3 runs allowed?  You think that’s a big ask?

Kremer has done this in 5 of his 10 starts.  Problem is, in most of the other 5, the team hasn’t had a chance.  
 

Akin also did this in his first 3 starts this year but the last 2 have been horrendous although his start against Cle was misleading due to poor defense and inherited runners allowed.  
 

So there is some recency bias here but these guys just need to be better.  Keep us in games.  That’s all you can ask for right now.

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2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Kremer has done this in 5 of his 10 starts.  Problem is, in most of the other 5, the team hasn’t had a chance.  
 

Akin also did this in his first 3 starts this year but the last 2 have been horrendous although his start against Cle was misleading due to poor defense and inherited runners allowed.  
 

So there is some recency bias here but these guys just need to be better.  Keep us in games.  That’s all you can ask for right now.

The issue is all 5 guys in the rotation you are hoping for that type of outing. You have to get thru a season. We still have 87 games left. I’m afraid this may actually get worse. 
 

It’s not like there are 2 arms in the rotation where you hope for that, without Means it’s 5. 
 

This is a terrible way to introduce these guys into a rotation. It’s being done collectively with no safety net. There are no innings eaters here. Harvey has barely averaged 4 innings a start. In the old days when the rosters expanded in September you could try something like this for a month. You have a ton of arms to pick up the slack. Here they are trying it for basically the duration of the season. 
 

I know the sport has changed and starters don’t go as long but this is a recipe for disaster. The arms at AAA like Wells and Lowther are similar types. Maybe Bradish will pan out but you don’t rush him up here due to need. You bring him up when he is ready. 

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