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How do you feel about our SP prospects going forward??

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I'm interested whether you guys think the O's should try to resign Matt Harvey?

The 32-year old won't cost much and has looked like a different pitcher in the second half:

5 starts, 1.65 ERA, 17Ks/6BB, 0.988 WHIP

Also, for the record, I agree with much of what has already been said about our SP prospects in this thread. I'd add that I think Bruce Zimmerman could legitimately be a #4-#5 starter on our next winning team.

 

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3 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

I'm interested whether you guys think the O's should try to resign Matt Harvey?

The 32-year old won't cost much and has looked like a different pitcher in the second half:

5 starts, 1.65 ERA, 17Ks/6BB, 0.988 WHIP

Also, for the record, I agree with much of what has already been said about our SP prospects in this thread. I'd add that I think Bruce Zimmerman could legitimately be a #4-#5 starter on our next winning team.

 

I think they should try to sign legit ML SP, but I won’t be surprised if they run Harvey back out there. 

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I'm feeling okay about the rotation. I do think we will need to sign a #1/#2 type starter before we are truly competitive, but I'm optimistic about Rodriguez alongside Means. I HOPE Hall can be a solid mid-rotation arm, but am nervous he's going to end up the in the pen. I'd like to see what Tyler Wells can do in the rotation. And there are enough numbers in the likes of Baumann, Lowther, Kremer, Akin, Bradish, Smith, A.Wells, Rom, etc. to find a back end starter or two and some solid bullpen arms. 

I'd love to see a rotation of Means, G.Rodriguez, T.Wells, Zimmermann and somebody else by May next year. That last spot can go to whoever out of the list above grabs it. Once these guys start filtering into the rotation and bullpen, I think we see the pitching turn the corner a bit and look better. 

Once the improvement starts, we need a veteran top-end starter and a piece or two in the pen to pull it all together. 

So, I'm optimistic about the rotation for the future, but it's not going to be grown all by itself. There is help needed. 

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3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

My view is we obviously need Rodriquez to be a TOR, and he should be starting in Baltimore by May, 2022.  So, along with Means, that's 2 spots we have covered - hoping they'll be our 2 TOR guys for several years.  After that, we do have other options - despite the apparent fails of Akin, Kremer, et al this season.  Bauman - if healthy - should get a shot to be in the Baltimore rotation early in the season.  Hall, Brnovich and Rom have done well at Bowie and should be options in Baltimore before the end of 2022.  And I hope they haven't given up on Lowther and Kremer.  Bradish seems most likely to be a reliever in Baltimore, and if they really know he's not cut out for starting, they should bring him up as a reliever.  Does anyone ever work out as a starter when it looks like they're more cut out for relieving?  I don't think so.  Akin's clearly not going to make it as a starter - move him to the pen - give Bradish, Akin and Kevin Smith roles they can be successful in instead going for 1,000 to 1 odds of making them starters.   

Very reasonable take. A lot riding on Grayson. I think Kevin Smith could be one of those guys who stays stretched out as a multi inning reliever or 3-4 inning spot starter like TJ McFarland, not just a mop up guy. So keep doing what they are doing with him.

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On 8/12/2021 at 12:16 PM, waroriole said:

I think they should try to sign legit ML SP, but I won’t be surprised if they run Harvey back out there. 

I'm in favor of resigning Harvey and also signing a #3/#4 starter.  Obviously that type of starter would require a 2 or 3 year commitment at the minimum.  What I would hate for the O's to do is go into 2022, depending on a starter who is right now in Bowie or Norfolk or has failed multiple times in the rotation this year.  Going in 2022 w/ Means and 4 question marks is a recipe for disaster in 2022.  Teams often need extra multiple starters to replace those SP who are injured or ineffective.  I would rather see the O's starters in Norfolk force their way into the major league rotation with excellent pitching than be called up emergently because no other starter is available. 

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Other than that the no milb season “hurt” our milb development, have we really learned anything about our pitching staff as a whole?

At this point it’s looking like the guys we have are the guys that are pretty much the guys we’re going to have for the near future. Except for Grod, and Hall, and a couple of others, the cupboard is pretty bare below AAA and what we’ve seen at the MLB level currently. The list of guys that have completely just fallen apart is disheartening. 

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I have been very disappointed by the pitching side of the minor league development.  As many others have stated, most of our starters falter when they get to AA or AAA, and the rest have been unimpressive in MLB debuts.  I guess developing ML starters is the hardest thing for a MLB club.  Hope the light comes on for one of these starters soon.  I guess Means is a pitcher who wasn't supposed to make it as a MLB starter, so maybe we'll have another one of those success stories. 

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Zero faith in our ability to develop quality major league starting pitchers. Until a guy comes up and is consistently good I'm just assuming they will fail. Young guys will always have good stats in the lower minors and people will hitch their wagons to a few names and pencil their names into the big league rotation but .. it just basically never works out.

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I'm not worried about our SP. Call me an optimist, but I truly believe we're heading in the right direction; there's a bright future for the O's. I expect this team will surprise a lot of people in 2022. Remember the 1988-1989 Orioles nearly went from Worst to First. This team is poised to do it with the talent we have at AA and AAA alone, as well as guys at the ML level who are taking their lumps, but may figure it out by Opening Day.

Right now we have some fine prospects in our system, and, as we know, some of them are getting their chance right now. This gives Elias and our coaches a chance to evaluate the talent and see which among them will stay in the rotation, or move to the bullpen, or be moved elsewhere. Of course Grayson Rodriguez is the guy we're  all rooting for and banking on the most, but we don't even have to put all our hope in him in order to achieve success- and a World Championship. 

Consider the pitching staffs we've had when we actually went to the Post Season in 2012, 2014 and 2016. In each of those magical seasons, we had 6-8 starters over the course of the season, and only 1-3 of those starters were home-grown. And in only one of those seasons did one of our high draft picks lead the team in starts (Gausman tied Tillman with 30 starts in 2016). 

So what is the takeaway? Tillman was one of the few trade pieces that worked out for us, but we have no idea if any one of our more recent trade acquisitions will be of much help. However there are possibilities among Kyle Bradish, Dean Kremer, Kevin Smith, Kyle Brnovich, Zack Peek and Jean Pinto. As for our own signings, I think we could make four or five post season appearances this decade with guys such as Michael Bauman, Cody Sedlock, Alexander Wells, Cameron Bishop, Gray Fenter, Brenan Hanifee, Zac Lowther, Drew Rom, Carter Baumler, Cameron Bishop, Garrett Stallings, Noah Denoyer, Griffin McLarty, Ofelky Peralta and Ignacio Feliz.

Our pitching staffs in the years we went to the post season were not impressive. Agreed? But if Grayson Rodriguez pans out as a TOR guy, and we sign some key free agent pitchers, supplemented by our own draft picks, international talent and other signings, we'll be okay. Who would have thought we could get to the post season with disasters like Ubaldo Jiminez and Wade Miley, or busts like Matusz, Arrieta, Bundy, Gausman and Mike Wright, and injury prone prospects like Zack Britton, and unexpected help from international talent like Wei-Yin Chen and Miguel Gonzalez, but we did.

Maybe when we win the World Series in 2024, we'll do it with a rotation of G-Rod, Means, Aaron Nola, Jean Pinto, Cody Sedlock, Joe Musgrove, and 2 or 3 other guys we've never heard of. Again, I think our rotation will be just fine. No need to panic. Be optimistic. If we don't finish over .500 by 2023 and flirt with the playoffs, then we should be concerned.

2012

Wei-Yin Chen, 32 Games Started

Tommy Hunter, 20 GS

Jason Hammel, 20 GS

Jake Arrieta, 18 GS

Mike Gonzalez, 15 GS

Brian Matusz, 16 GS

Chris Tillman, 15 GS

Zack Britton, 11 GS

2014

Chris Tillman, 34 Games Started

Wei-Yin Chen, 31 GS

Bud Norris, 28 GS

Miguel Gonzalez, 26 GS

Ubaldo Jiminez, 22 GS

Kevin Gausman, 20 GS

2016

Chris Tillman, 30 Games Started

Kevin Gausman, 30 GS

Ubaldo Jimenez, 25 GS

Yovani Gallardo, 23 GS

Dylan Bundy, 14 GS

Tyler Wilson, 13 GS

Mike Wright, 12 GS

Wade Miley, 11 GS

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5 hours ago, Finisher said:

Zero faith in our ability to develop quality major league starting pitchers. Until a guy comes up and is consistently good I'm just assuming they will fail. Young guys will always have good stats in the lower minors and people will hitch their wagons to a few names and pencil their names into the big league rotation but .. it just basically never works out.

Just wait until Grayson arrives.   I’ve seen him and don’t think he’ll fail.   

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On 8/28/2021 at 4:41 PM, Frobby said:

Just wait until Grayson arrives.   I’ve seen him and don’t think he’ll fail.   

I just hope he can stay healthy. It's nice seeing him in the rotation all season long, and hopefully he'll get promoted to Norfolk before the end of the season for a start or two.

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