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Frederick's Pitching

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David should take some responsiblity but where is the coaching in all this. That's the point I'm making is that Hernandez shouldn't have to do it all. That's where the coaching come in.

So they could coach in April and May, but they forgot how to in June & July? :confused:

Looks to me like he pitched above his head early on and now is coming back to earth. It's not like he dominated the Sally league last year, a 4.24 ERA is nothing to write home about. So a year later and a level higher he is pitching about where everyone should expect.

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So they could coach in April and May, but they forgot how to in June & July? :confused:

Looks to me like he pitched above his head early on and now is coming back to earth. It's not like he dominated the Sally league last year, a 4.24 ERA is nothing to write home about. So a year later and a level higher he is pitching about where everyone should expect.

This thread wasn't about Hernandez and his problems!! It was about the Frederick starting rotation pitching below their expectation. Explain that!! I really believe that they expected more from their prospects this year. So I truly believe that there is something wrong when you have a whole rotation having problems, with the exception of Spoone.

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Who is the pitching coach at Frederick, and how long (and where) has he been coaching with the Orioles before this year?

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This thread wasn't about Hernandez and his problems!! It was about the Frederick starting rotation pitching below their expectation. Explain that!! I really believe that they expected more from their prospects this year. So I truly believe that there is something wrong when you have a whole rotation having problems, with the exception of Spoone.

The rotation for most of the season includes four pitchers, Berken, Spoone, Erbe, & Hernandez. As I said before, Berken's problems shouldn't be surprising when you look at his numbers at Aberdeen and realize what a big jump it is to Frederick. He's simply not an overpowering pitcher. Overall, Hernandez isn't pitching a whole lot different than he did last year. Spoone is actually pitching better than last year. The only real red flag in the whole bunch is Erbe, IMO.

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So they could coach in April and May, but they forgot how to in June & July? :confused:

Looks to me like he pitched above his head early on and now is coming back to earth. It's not like he dominated the Sally league last year, a 4.24 ERA is nothing to write home about. So a year later and a level higher he is pitching about where everyone should expect.

First of all his ERA last year was 4.15 not 4.24. Second like the poster had stated earlier baseball is a game of adjustment and I believe that Hernandez hasn't adjusted as well as he should of and I believe that's the coaches responsiblity. During his bullpen sessions shouldn't they be working on things like that because all the coach does is just observe and says nothing. He throws his 30 pitches and calls it a day. What's going on with Erbe and Berken must be the same, IMO. Just look at the Orioles organization, they have issues from the top to the bottom. Compare to other organization like the (Dodgers, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Devil Ray just to name a few) it doesn't compare. They must be doing something right!! Hopefully MacPhail will get it done and I believe that Joe Jordan has done a terrific job since he has taken over. So there is hope!! So I believe that there will be some changes next year,IMO...

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During his bullpen sessions shouldn't they be working on things like that because all the coach does is just observe and says nothing. He throws his 30 pitches and calls it a day.[/b]

Have you witnessed this?? Whats your source?

I have a very hard time believing that Beatty just stands there and watches without saying a word

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Who is the pitching coach at Frederick, and how long (and where) has he been coaching with the Orioles before this year?

http://www.frederickkeys.com/cgi-bin/dist/news.cgi?id=1165001855

Pitching Coach – Blaine Beatty

Beatty returns to Frederick for his second season as the Keys pitching coach. Beatty began coaching in 1998, splitting the season between Rookie League Gulf Coast and AA Erie.

More recently Beatty spent 3 seasons in the New York Mets system as a pitching coach for AA Binghamton (2005) and Class A Capital City (2003-04). Beatty was originally selected in the 9th round by the Orioles in the 1986 First Year Player Draft. Blaine spent 12 seasons in the minor leagues going 121-69 with 3.26 ERA and named Texas League Pitcher of the Year (1988) with AA Jackson.

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2006 Season:Team League W    L    ERA   G   GS   CG  SHO SV  IP      H   R  ER HR BB SO   GO/AO AVG DEL SAL     7    8    4.15  28  28   0    0  0   145.1  134  83 67 13 71 154  0.86 .244 

This is from MILB the official source of MLB. I don't know where they get their stats but it is incorrect! Looks like they missed a game. David had 28 starts and the Cube only have 27.

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2006 Season:Team League W    L    ERA   G   GS   CG  SHO SV  IP      H   R  ER HR BB SO   GO/AO AVG DEL SAL     7    8    4.15  28  28   0    0  0   145.1  134  83 67 13 71 154  0.86 .244 

This is from MILB the official source of MLB. I don't know where they get their stats but it is incorrect! Looks like they missed a game. David had 28 starts and the Cube only have 27.

Then I stand corrected. Apologies

However, the point remains the same a ERA of 4.15 in the Sally League in a players 21 year old season isn't anything to write home about.

If he had dominated last year at Delmarva and then completely tanked this year I would be curious as to why. However, it looks like he started strong in a very cold April and has regressed to his expected preformance level since.

Now Erbe is interesting, however I am more inclined to chalk that up to him being very young for his league (19) and him working on different things as opposed to going out and trying to win every game.

ex. The 3 times I have seen him pitch this year he has been more FB/Change Up than he was last year. Last year he was mainly FB/Slider.

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Then I stand corrected. Apologies

However, the point remains the same a ERA of 4.15 in the Sally League in a players 21 year old season isn't anything to write home about.

If he had dominated last year at Delmarva and then completely tanked this year I would be curious as to why. However, it looks like he started strong in a very cold April and has regressed to his expected preformance level since.

Now Erbe is interesting, however I am more inclined to chalk that up to him being very young for his league (19) and him working on different things as opposed to going out and trying to win every game.

ex. The 3 times I have seen him pitch this year he has been more FB/Change Up than he was last year. Last year he was mainly FB/Slider.

From the sounds of it you don't think much of Hernandez. But when the season started he was ranked 13th by scout.com and 15th by our very own Orioles Hangout 2006 Top Prospect List in the Orioles organization. So somebody thought very highly of him. And as for his age, I don't understand why everybody thinks he is too old for the Carolina League. Hernandez is the 5th youngest on the Frederick roster and the 8th youngest on the Delmarva roaster and here is a list of what the average age in following leagues

Jenius

Plus Member Since 03/05

Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: Gaithersburg, MD

Posts: 258

Age Matters (when evaluating Rowell, Snyder, etc)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot has been made of the fact that both Rowell and Snyder have been performing near league average, rather than dominating the SAL like many expected (at least for Rowell). Many have (correctly) countered by saying they are young for the league, and must be evaluated differently. I decided to do a little research into average ages and stats for each league we have a team in, so we can have a solid point of reference for discussions like the above. The below are 2007 data (as of this weekend), obtained from minorleaguebaseball.com and mlb.com. Enjoy, and discuss if you like:

GCL Averages (Rookie)

Overall Average Age: 20.0

Average Hitting Stats: .248-.332-.358 (.690 OPS), 4.3 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 3.94 ERA, 0.52 HR/9, 3.70 BB/9, 8.21 K/9

Appalachian League Averages (Rookie)

Overall Average Age: 20.6

Average Hitting Stats: .276-.348-.406 (.754 OPS), 4.4 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 4.84 ERA, 0.63 HR/9, 3.80 BB/9, 8.15 K/9

New York-Penn League Averages (A-Short Season)

Overall Average Age: 21.7

Average Hitting Stats: .250-.332-.358 (.690 OPS), 4.5 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 3.95 ERA, 0.45 HR/9, 3.68 BB/9, 7.66 K/9

South Atlantic League Averages (A)

Overall Average Age: 22.0

Average Hitting Stats: .263-.335-.398 (.733 OPS), 4.6 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 4.34 ERA, 0.76 HR/9, 3.42 BB/9, 7.54 K/9

Carolina League Averages (A-Advanced)

Overall Average Age: 23.2

Average Hitting Stats: .261-.340-.393 (.733 OPS), 5.1 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 4.18 ERA, 0.70 HR/9, 3.74 BB/9, 6.73 K/9

Eastern League Averages (AA)

Overall Average Age: 25.0

Average Hitting Stats: .259-.332-.389 (.721 OPS), 5.0 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 4.05 ERA, 0.74 HR/9, 3.51 BB/9, 6.95 K/9

International League Averages (AAA)

Overall Average Age: 27.2

Average Hitting Stats: .260-.332-.393 (.725 OPS), 4.9 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 3.96 ERA, 0.78 HR/9, 3.44 BB/9, 6.97 K/9

Major League Baseball Averages

Average Hitting Stats: .264-.332-.415 (.747 OPS), 5.3 AB/K

Average Pitching Stats: 4.35 ERA, 0.99 HR/9, 3.32 BB/9, 6.55 K/9

So if this is correct then Hernandez is still ahead of the game, as I see it.

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During his bullpen sessions shouldn't they be working on things like that because all the coach does is just observe and says nothing. He throws his 30 pitches and calls it a day. What's going on with Erbe and Berken must be the same, IMO.

This is convincing? You mean coaches never talk to players in the dugout? In the locker room?

Just because you didn't see him say anything to him in a random 10 minute period means that they never talk?

And it MUST be the same with Erbe and Berken?

For Pete's sake!

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From the sounds of it you don't think much of Hernandez. But when the season started he was ranked 13th by scout.com and 15th by our very own Orioles Hangout 2006 Top Prospect List in the Orioles organization. So somebody thought very highly of him. And as for his age, I don't understand why everybody thinks he is too old for the Carolina League. Hernandez is the 5th youngest on the Frederick roster and the 8th youngest on the Delmarva roaster and here is a list of what the average age in following leagues

So if this is correct then Hernandez is still ahead of the game, as I see it.

No I said he was old for Sally League which he was.

If you are a top prospect who is 21 years old you should dominate Delmarva or at the very least have an ERA under 4.00.

As far as his status as a prospect I will be very surprised if he is on in the top 25 at the end of the season. The fact he was in the top 15 says more about the Orioles than it does about Hernandez.

Barring a major turnaround Hernandez projects out as 4th-5th starter or bullpen arm at best. I would love for him to prove me wrong but I just don't see how he is going to be any bettter than that without huge changes.

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There could be many things that may be contributing to this two month slump by Frederick pitchers. First, as the weather gets warmer, the ball carries much better. Balls that were long outs a few months ago are now HR's. Some of our hitters have gotten hot as well and that seems to be the case every year. Second, the league has made adjustments to our pitchers and now our pitchers have to adapt as well. Third, it's possible these guys are a little tired. They've thrown the most innings they've ever thrown in their lives (probably) in the last season or two.

I am not down on these guys. They just have to go through these growing pains to get where they need to be. Erbe is the only one who really has me concerned at all, and even his struggles don't have me all that worried just yet.

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Erbe is the only one you can make a strong case for, IMO. Berken was good, but not dominant at Aberdeen. This is a two level jump for him. It's not surprising that he's struggling a bit. Hernandez isn't pitching a lot differently than he did last year at Delmarva. Good K numbers but very inconsistent and overall mediocre. Bergesen just made a jump. Hard to believe new coaching has hurt him after just a few starts. Spoone seems to be making definite progress this year while Erbe has definitely regressed.

For the record, I never said the Frederick coaching staff was the problem. RZ, you are right on with your assessment of each pitcher, I just wanted to make it clear I was not indicting the coaching staff.

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