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anselmO

Mussina Retires

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I'm sorry frobby, I didn't realize that you guys were such close friends. Next time he's over your house for a cookout, just ask him if he thinks he's not an A--.

Well, I am a huge admirer of Mussina, but that's besides the point. If you had read John Feinstein's book about Mussina and Glavine, Living on the Black, and various articles in the NY press over the last 3-4 months or more, you'd know that:

1. Mussina is fairly contemptuous of Roger Clemens and how he conducted himself in the last several years (putting aside the whole steroids issue).

2. Mussina desperately wants to be home with his family.

3. Mussina was very afraid of losing his skills and being perceived as someone just hanging on to reach 300 wins.

4. At the same time, the only reason he could see to keep playing was to try to reach 300 wins, which he assumed might take as long as three more years, which he really didn't want to do.

All of that adds up to a guy who, once he says he's done, is done.

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No one really knows what the criteria are for the Hall regarding which cap goes on the plaque, right? There are pretty good arguments for both teams.

While the Yanks enjoyed a nice string of playoff runs during Mussina's tenure, their failure to win it all during his years there are looked at much less positively by their fans than fans of most organizations would view such a stretch, IMO. As we know, the bar is "World Champs or bust" in Yankeeland. And Mikey won zero there.

The O's, on the other hand, only went to two postseasons during his 9 years here, neither ending in a World Series, but I'd say we O's fans have much more fond Mussina memories than the Yanks fans, considering only his time here (not the obvious bitter feelings when he fled for NY).

But it's tough to discount those bitter feelings, and I assume the Hall is aware of them. I get the feeling from Yanks fans that he never caught on there, as far as being a fan favorite, whereas we practically worshiped the guy when he took the mound here in his prime. It will be a tough call.

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He'll go in as an Oriole. He can make a request to go as a Yankee if he wants, but ultimately the league decides. He has more years in Baltimore (10 to 8) and the Orioles have fewer hall of famers than the Yanks (think Gary Carter going in as an Expo versus a Met).

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Well, I am a huge admirer of Mussina, but that's besides the point. If you had read John Feinstein's book about Mussina and Glavine, Living on the Black, and various articles in the NY press over the last 3-4 months or more, you'd know that:

1. Mussina is fairly contemptuous of Roger Clemens and how he conducted himself in the last several years (putting aside the whole steroids issue).

2. Mussina desperately wants to be home with his family.

3. Mussina was very afraid of losing his skills and being perceived as someone just hanging on to reach 300 wins.

4. At the same time, the only reason he could see to keep playing was to try to reach 300 wins, which he assumed might take as long as three more years, which he really didn't want to do.

All of that adds up to a guy who, once he says he's done, is done.

Funny. I didn't read the book but that's exactly the impression I had of Mussina's perspective on things. He's uber-rational. You could click through his cost-benefit analysis and come to the conclusion for him.

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He'll go in as an Oriole. He can make a request to go as a Yankee if he wants, but ultimately the league decides. He has more years in Baltimore (10 to 8) and the Orioles have fewer hall of famers than the Yanks (think Gary Carter going in as an Expo versus a Met).

I think the Hall of Fame will respect the wishes of the player if it's a fairly close call, which this is. Think about his induction ceremony -- are busloads of fans from Baltimore going to come up to see him inducted, as they did with Eddie and Cal? No. Will there be a lot of fans there from NY? Yes.

So if he's inducted, my guess is he will go in as a Yankee.

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I'm proud of Mike Mussina. I really am. Good for him.

He was a helluva pitcher for a long time. He was the consumate pro. He was the type of teammate / man in the the community that any smart owner should go the extra mile to keep around (like Melvin Mora, Brian Roberts, Jeremy Guthrie, and Nick Markakis IMO). High character, high intelligence guys like him are few and far between. It still kills me that we let him leave because we were stupid and short-sighted.

Good luck to you Moose. It was a pleasure watching you work.

I don't know about the high character part. He's been know to be really abrasive, snobbish and arrogant. But yes, he was one of the best pitchers of the steroid generation so he should be the HOF.

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He had a Great career and he is one of my favorite O's. Am I wrong to be happy that he never got that ring?

I think you stated it well. I for one never really hated Moose for leaving but hated where he went. So IMO, I think it is right to feel happy that he retires with out a ring because it woulf have meant the Yankees would have bought another one. Moose IMO was in the top 4 pitchers in Oriole history. Palmer is the clear #1 and then McNally, Cuellar and Moose in a bunch. He was one of my favorites and had he gone to Atlanta, Minnesota etc. and won 1, I would have been happy for him. He went to the Brinks truck so to bad, he did not get one.

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Mussina a HOF? I say no. The Hall of Fame means greatness, and I never saw Mussina in that light. He was a very, very good pitcher for a lot of years.

Would a Hall of Famer tell his manager(Joe Torre at the time) to bump him down in the rotation because he doesn't want to continually face the top pitchers?

No chance.

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Mussina a HOF? I say no. The Hall of Fame means greatness, and I never saw Mussina in that light. He was a very, very good pitcher for a lot of years.

Would a Hall of Famer tell his manager(Joe Torre at the time) to bump him down in the rotation because he doesn't want to continually face the top pitchers?

No chance.

Perhaps theoretically. Certainly not in actuality.

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Mussina a HOF? I say no. The Hall of Fame means greatness, and I never saw Mussina in that light. He was a very, very good pitcher for a lot of years.

Would a Hall of Famer tell his manager(Joe Torre at the time) to bump him down in the rotation because he doesn't want to continually face the top pitchers?

No chance.

I guess that's why people like Phil Rizzuto are in the Hall. And a Hall of Famer would tell his manager to bump him down in the rotation if he thought it would help his team win. It's about winning over ego. That's why (plus the 270 wins and other accomplishments) Mussina is a Hall of Famer.

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Would a Hall of Famer tell his manager(Joe Torre at the time) to bump him down in the rotation because he doesn't want to continually face the top pitchers?

No chance.

Show me where Mussina ever asked Torre to do that. I have never heard anything like that, at all.

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I don't know about the high character part. He's been know to be really abrasive, snobbish and arrogant. But yes, he was one of the best pitchers of the steroid generation so he should be the HOF.

I don't know if what you're saying is correct or not, but my guess is that he found always being the smartest guy in the room (literally), to be a bit wearing on occasion.

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