Jump to content
waynebug

Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means

Recommended Posts

He thinks the return would be about what the Mariners got for Paxton or the Twins got for Jose Berrios. A top 40 overall prospect.

The issue with Means is his shoulder issues in 2019 and this year.  And his lower strikeout numbers.

Whatever they do GET MORE DOMINICANS THROWN IN !!!!

This was a subscriber's only mailbag, not on the regular MLB Trade Rumors site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, waynebug said:

He thinks the return would be about what the Mariners got for Paxton or the Twins got for Jose Berrios. A top 40 overall prospect.

The issue with Means is his shoulder issues in 2019 and this year.  And his lower strikeout numbers.

Whatever they do GET MORE DOMINICANS THROWN IN !!!!

 

He had a tired shoulder last year as well didn't he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MurphDogg said:

Gotta fill the 2022 innings somehow. I don't expect a Means trade until the All-Star Break when hopefully Baumann and Grayson Rodriguez are in the rotation.

Always have next year's version of Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Always have next year's version of Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez.

Yeah, but it is nice to have one guy that you know you can count on. I wouldn't seek a trade for Means until they reach the point that they know Baumann, Grayson, and/or DL Hall can be that type of guy.

I think Lowther, Akin, Kremer, Wells, Zimmermann, and Ellis will all be competing for spots 2-5 in the rotation in spring training along with next year's version of Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez.

Would be nice if Baumann, Grayson and Hall could all be ready by the All Star Break. Bradish and Drew Rom could be in the conversation by then, too. Kind of a lost year for Kevin Smith, but he could bounce back and be in the conversation as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm torn on this idea.

On one hand, I like the idea of continuing to stock the system.  

On the other hand, I think Means being the 2nd or 3rd guy in the rotation is good.  At some point you gotta keep guys to build around.  

Also, you are still selling tickets for Major League prices. You need to have a few actual Major Leaguers on your roster.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the worst pitching staff in MLB - probably by a wide margin - I think it's foolish to consider going after a Means trade.  Obviously, nobody's untouchable, but it'd take an offer of clearly more than he's worth to make me consider it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

With the worst pitching staff in MLB - probably by a wide margin - I think it's foolish to consider going after a Means trade.  Obviously, nobody's untouchable, but it'd take an offer of clearly more than he's worth to make me consider it.  

I saw this today on r/baseball.

I was surprised.

 

k6mxyhfu4un71.jpg?width=626&format=pjpg&

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough call but you have to question his durability and his value goes kaput if he gets any type of serious injury.   He's got two yeas in and his time to FA is on the clock.  I would definitely consider it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's also the issue that if you extend him you're buying into his age 32 season.

Dierkes is the owner and creator of MLB Trade Rumors.  He gets 100s of thousands of views every day.

Today's Mailbag was for subscribers only.  I think I pay $3 a month.

"Quint" asked  would he trade Means and what could he expect to get in return.   He mentioned outfielder Robert Hassell of the Padres currently the #37 prospect in somebody's eyes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope the Means/Mullins/Santander player batch last to become part of something good here, but grant its an open question.

A comp I've heard for Orioles John Means is Tigers Matthew Boyd from circa 2018-2019.   Detroit opted to hold, a choice generally looking like an inaccuracy.   I doubt Means yet is where Boyd was then as he completed two full MLB seasons, a badge unearned so far by our guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Orioles are trying to build a competitive ballclub against heavy odds -- division rivals with more revenues (other than TB) and lots of talent, virtually no infusion of ML-ready international talent for a few more years, tightwad owners (who IMO won't spend much on payroll because they're waiting to sell the team), a terrible reputation as baseball's laughingstock or close to it, and years of eroding the team's fan base. Building a starting pitching staff brings the added challenge of young pitchers gaining confidence when they're playing most of their games in parks where routine fly balls can become home runs.

It's been a slow process. The Orioles now have six to eight guys who are bona fide major leaguers. (It's certainly possible to argue about how many and about who they are, but I think most would agree that number is in the neighborhood.) To be successful, they'll need at least three times that many, and for two or three of those guys to emerge as stars. If they're like every other good team I've seen, a competitive Orioles team will be a mix of young players and veterans.

It seems to me that when a team in the Orioles' woeful position finds a guy, out of its MiL system or via trade/free agency/Rule 5, who establishes himself as a good major leaguer and isn't blocking one of the team's top talents, the plan should be to keep him. Sure, if somebody makes a trade proposal that blows you away and will give you several quality ML players, or if you're confident that your player is, say, "an old 26," you should consider it. But the bottom line -- without extraordinary opportunities or risks that the other side in a trade doesn't know or appreciate -- should be to keep Mullins so you know you've got a real good player in CF for a few years and Means so you know you've got at least one competent starting pitcher.

If the Orioles are going to trade from a limited supply of established major leaguers, they should be seeking guys who also are proven ML players or are very close to ready for the majors. Continually trading the team's best players for prospects, no matter how good they are, will just prolong the  rebuilding process. It might be fine with Elias for him to say two years from now, with the Orioles losing 90 games, "We need to be patient," and have the Orioles' remaining fans say that you can't judge Elias's rebuilding plan yet because it's still early in the process and some highly-rated prospects are almost ready for promotion to the the Orioles. I think that would be fine with present ownership as long as they're maintaining a low payroll and taking out a decent profit. That wouldn't be fine with me. 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2021 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2021 Orioles Stats

2021 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • Cardinals were smart enough not to resign Pujols when he hit his 30’s knowing he would never be able to match the production from the first decade of his career. With the way the Orioles have operated during the Angelos era they almost certainly resign a player of that caliber. It’s a mistake you can’t make when you’re not the Yankees or Dodgers. The Cardinals usually avoid these kind of crippling moves and that keeps them competitive. With Elias hopefully we see that with the O’s. 
    • Marte, who may considered the best CF option via FA, was just signed by the Mets.
    • On the contrary, it is completely true. The team will have ebbs and flows, based on random chance And misfortune such as is happening to Kjested right now, But if you avoid long-term contracts, all of which are stupid, trade your guys at peak value and restock the farm, and there’s no reason why you can’t continually be a positive team. The Cardinals do it and they never have a single digit draft choice they always draft in the high teens, and yet they still have a good team over and over.
    • Going into 2009, Tillman was BA’s no. 22 prospect, Matusz no. 25, Arrieta no. 67.   Britton wasn’t ranked yet but was no. 63 the next year.  Brad Bergesen was the reigning Eastern League pitcher of the year.   David Hernandez had led the league. In strikeouts.   So, it was a more impressive group than your post suggests.   
    • Even worse living with the knowledge that Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr. could have been the Orioles owner all this time, but thanks to Peter Angelos outbidding him it never happened. 
    • Nothing happens til it happens, but can we glean anything meaningful from what the insiders say?   ”Listening to offers” means nothing. Does anyone NOT listen to offers? However, that’s probably indicates less interest than a term like… ”Dangling.” What does that mean? Is GM A calling up GM B and saying,” hey, I got this hot guy, and he can be yours! All I need is XX.” Is GM A being coy and hitting that MAAAAAAYBE he’ll listen…? Regardless, it probably indicates more desire to trade, but maybe not as much as… “Eager to deal” or “seeking the best matchup” which is where GM A is calling up everyone in the Rolodex and saying,” Have I got a deal for you! AND if you ACT NOW…no? Well, how about……etc etc” All  those terms indicate at least partially dealing from a position of “I don’t have to” “I’m in no hurry” “if you don’t, someone else will,” and so on. But pity the guys who… ”Are willing to eat most of the contract…” the fools who rush in, and then find it veeeeery expensive to rush back out.. poor San Diego would be less poor if they hadn’t flung all that cash at Mr Hosmer, but they did, and he has been smiling ever since…and they..” are willing to eat most of his contract” Anyway, where does that leave the Orioles? We’re listening. Sure we are. Everyone listens except your cat in the backyard who doesn’t want to come in yet. We are “dangling”…. That means we’re listening a bit more earnestly, but still it’s our call. Nothing will happen unless it’s very good for the Bmore boys. So let’s see what kind of horse trader Mike is, and what can he bring home in return for the shiny bauble he is dangling…
    • I think we are going to have to get some favorable results from our own young pitchers to improve significantly in 2022. Last year was a bottom 20% outcome in that regard compared to the range of possible outcomes from that group.    If things break the other way in 2022 we could see a lot more wins.   But you can’t just expect that to happen given their performance to date.   
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...