Jump to content
waynebug

Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means

Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, waynebug said:

There's also the issue that if you extend him you're buying into his age 32 season.

Dierkes is the owner and creator of MLB Trade Rumors.  He gets 100s of thousands of views every day.

Today's Mailbag was for subscribers only.  I think I pay $3 a month.

"Quint" asked  would he trade Means and what could he expect to get in return.   He mentioned outfielder Robert Hassell of the Padres currently the #37 prospect in somebody's eyes. 

Sounds misguided.  Trading Means for an outfield prospect.  Dierkes must be a Padres fan.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said when the idea came up this spring:

If you even want to start the conversation its two top 50 global prospects.  Then we'll figure out the rest.

I'm not interested in a "reasonable" return.  A "fair" return.  If that's your offer, keep on walking.

If we trade Means- and I'm not saying I'm unwilling, see above- I don't see how it is possible we improve next year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I said when the idea came up this spring:

If you even want to start the conversation its two top 50 global prospects.  Then we'll figure out the rest.

I'm not interested in a "reasonable" return.  A "fair" return.  If that's your offer, keep on walking.

If we trade Means- and I'm not saying I'm unwilling, see above- I don't see how it is possible we improve next year.

That last sentence revolves around the notion that no other moves will be made for the staff.  While that's a distinct possibility, I don't believe they could trade Means and not find a decent replacement.  Now I doubt they sign someone like Robbie Ray, but if they traded Means and signed Ray, I'd be happy.

Means is a good pitcher, not a great one.  I suppose we can debate on what "reasonable" and "fair" means.  But I don't think any of us should get our hopes up and be "blown away" on a return for Means.  That's not likely to happen if he's traded.

The market, IMO, always wins.  We might like to think starting the conversation centers around two top 50 global prospects.  The market might tell us different.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gotta trade him. We’re definitely going to be terrible again next year. 2023 would be a 2012 type miracle. We need pieces for 2023+.  Keep stockpiling the system. It’ll pay off in a big way and not just an ALDS and WC win. 

Ye of little faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Sounds misguided.  Trading Means for an outfield prospect.  Dierkes must be a Padres fan.

 
  •  

Nothing misguided about it.  If you trade Means, you trade him for the best package you can get, OFer or not.

I agree you would prefer to target other areas though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Covid, and our current crop or “starting pitching” prospects in the MLB, both pushed our window back. I’d trade Mullins and Means. Mancini is a given. Yes. We’ll be the worst team in baseball again.
 

2023 will be hopeful at MLB level and we will have an absolute stacked system that will be top 1-10 in MLB for years even with the graduation of top prospects. 
 

Should we try and get lucky in 2023?  Or should we be an absolute dynasty from 2024+?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In theory you could use Robert Hassell to play centerfield and then it would give the option to trade Mullins. 

I think at some point you have to hold onto your better players and Means might be a guy you want to keep.

If you get blown away by an offer for Means then consider trading him, but don’t trade him just to accumulate more prospects. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nothing misguided about it.  If you trade Means, you trade him for the best package you can get, OFer or not.

I agree you would prefer to target other areas though.

O's have no reason to trade Means unless it improves their pitching.  Trading him for an outfield prospect is misguided.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wildcard said:

O's have no reason to trade Means unless it improves their pitching.  Trading him for an outfield prospect is misguided.

You can always trade the OF prospects for pitching.  You don’t have to solve your problems with one move.

If the Os decide they want to trade Means, you trade him for the best package you can get. It would be irresponsible and dumb to do anything else.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That last sentence revolves around the notion that no other moves will be made for the staff.  While that's a distinct possibility, I don't believe they could trade Means and not find a decent replacement.  Now I doubt they sign someone like Robbie Ray, but if they traded Means and signed Ray, I'd be happy.

Means is a good pitcher, not a great one.  I suppose we can debate on what "reasonable" and "fair" means.  But I don't think any of us should get our hopes up and be "blown away" on a return for Means.  That's not likely to happen if he's traded.

The market, IMO, always wins.  We might like to think starting the conversation centers around two top 50 global prospects.  The market might tell us different.  

It isn't impossible for them to trade Means and improve next year.  It's just highly unlikely.

When the market is unfavorable, you don't make the deal.  That's how you "beat" the market.

Means pitching like a top 10 pitcher in July gets you two top 50 prospects.  So you wait.

And if it never materializes, if he gets injured or regresses, what did you miss out on?  Josh Bell (The prospect we received from the LAD for George Sherrill)?

That won't kill your rebuild.  Trading your best pitcher, and one of your best developmental successes, for nothing will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gotta trade him. We’re definitely going to be terrible again next year. 2023 would be a 2012 type miracle. We need pieces for 2023+.  Keep stockpiling the system. It’ll pay off in a big way and not just an ALDS and WC win. 

So trade everyone with some possible trade value and more than two years of ML experience for prospects who may or may not become major leaguers? Or is it three years?

When does this "stink today and hope for tomorrow" stuff end?   :confused: 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes we should, and quickly.

 

I checked Seattle’s top 30, they don’t have any left handers who are near, and they don’t have very many right handers who are near either. Seattle would love to have a guy like Means, And if they miss the playoffs in the next couple weeks it will only be by a game or two, and a meaningful pitcher Could’ve made the difference, although their offense is woof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2021 Minor League Depth Chart

2021 Prospect Power Rankings

2020 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2020 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • Oh, absolutely.   The O’s were leading the division by six games when this news broke.   It stung pretty badly to lose Manny in that situation.   As it turns out, the team played well without him for the rest of the regular season.   But we’ll always wonder if he could have made a difference in that KC series, if he’d managed to rehab and return to the field.     Some posters faulted him for not acceding to the team’s wishes.   Not me though.  
    • Win 3 Cy Youngs, 3 World Series and a WS game in 3 decades and you can be as arrogant as you want.   Palmer rules.
    • So trade our best performing position player in order to get prospects that don’t usually pan out… i.e Machado deal  Pass 
    • I think the Orioles wanted Manny for the playoffs.  In a noncompetitive season they may have had a different view.
    • There were some aspects of the Manny knee situation I’d forgotten.   In particular, when Manny shut down and had surgery on the second knee, that wasn’t what the team wanted him to do.   "Our original approach was to have him rest and then to try to play and then see if he could play ball. We also knew there was a chance of a recurrence. Given this injury and the time of the season, we thought that we would rest it and try to recover and come back and play for the rest of the year. But Manny didn't feel that was the best option." (This quote from Duquette was in a post by weams without a link.).   It also seems that Manny had the option of “rest and rehab” with the first knee and opted for surgery.    Here’s a link to the weams post, which is in a very long thread on this topic.   https://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17946-manny-machado-expected-to-have-surgery-on-knee-within-a-week/page/35/#comments Anyway, I’d say Manny really did the opposite of what Tatis is doing, i.e., favoring surgery over rest and rehab.    
    • The thing about Adam Is that he comes across as genuine. He’s not one of these arrogant jerks like “well, you remember that I never gave up a grand slam” Palmer who reminds us every single chance he gets, and shares memories like a king distributes largesse. Adam is just a guy telling stories. I wonder how he’d be as a broadcaster?
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...