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Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means

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18 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gotta trade him. We’re definitely going to be terrible again next year. 2023 would be a 2012 type miracle. We need pieces for 2023+.  Keep stockpiling the system. It’ll pay off in a big way and not just an ALDS and WC win. 

John Means would be on the team in 2023 and for another season after that...

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55 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying here. But let me ask you. You've listed a lot of pitchers you believe are ready and need innings to show they belong. With that being the case, do you want FA pitchers signed this winter? You mentioned a closer. Would you sign a starter? 2 starters? A bulk guy? A late inning reliever? 

Or would you want to leave opportunities open for the guys you listed?

I understand it'll wind up being some of both but what say you about signing FA pitchers this winter?

I think Elias needs to add a starter and a closer.   if Elias adds more that is a plus.   What the object of these adds are is to stabilize the pitching staff and push some pitchers to AAA.  That adds depth for when injuries happen.

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Just now, wildcard said:

I think Elias needs to add a starter and a closer.   if Elias adds more that is a plus.   What the object of these adds are is to stabilize the pitching staff and push some pitchers to AAA.  That adds depth for when injuries happen.

I don't think the reliever needs to be a closer but I agree a reliable vet reliever should be on the radar.

And 2 starters.

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Just now, Sports Guy said:

LOL.  Right, I'm the bad guy because I pointed out that I had already answered your question..very clearly.

Just read man.

Honestly, life's too short to bother with people like you.    

 

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Just now, wildcard said:

I think Elias needs to add a starter and a closer.   if Elias adds more that is a plus.   What the object of these adds are is to stabilize the pitching staff and push some pitchers to AAA.  That adds depth for when injuries happen.

I agree.

So adding a starter could mean 1) bring in a reliable guy knowing that is expensive or 2) bring in a slightly higher level Matt Harvey knowing the uncertain results or 3) look for a Tampa hybrid type guy to pitch 2-3-4 innings rather than a traditional starter type.

IMO, it's too early to see the O's spend big on a starter. And I don't think they'll spend big on a closer. But I hope they sign 3 guys capable of pitching 3 innings per outing. What do you think happens this offseason?

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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don't think the reliever needs to be a closer but I agree a reliable vet reliever should be on the radar.

And 2 starters.

No current Oriole has stepped up to be a reliable closer.   I think pushing Sulser, Lopez, etc to set up or earlier makes the team stronger.

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4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

No current Oriole has stepped up to be a reliable closer.   I think pushing Sulser, Lopez, etc to set up or earlier makes the team stronger.

I get it but its not a need.  Paying up more money because someone has a big number under the S column isn't the way to go.  Just get the best reliever you can get.  Things will get sorted out from there.  Besides, I would rather not pigeon hole my best reliever into a 9th inning only role anyway.

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3 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

I agree.

So adding a starter could mean 1) bring in a reliable guy knowing that is expensive or 2) bring in a slightly higher level Matt Harvey knowing the uncertain results or 3) look for a Tampa hybrid type guy to pitch 2-3-4 innings rather than a traditional starter type.

IMO, it's too early to see the O's spend big on a starter. And I don't think they'll spend big on a closer. But I hope they sign 3 guys capable of pitching 3 innings per outing. What do you think happens this offseason?

I don't think Elias is going to sign any long term contracts.  One or two years probably.   The big question is how big those salaries will be.   I am in favor of spending what he needs to on short  term contracts to get quality pitchers.     The payroll is so low he can afford to spend in 2022.

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29 minutes ago, interloper said:

The fact that Matt Harvey gave us that many innings is honestly a pretty stunning outcome. Can't expect that level of innings eater from those type of guys. 

Those were not good innings though. If the goal was to finish 50-112, then I guess it was OK.

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Just now, Sports Guy said:

I get it but its not a need.  Paying up more money because someone has a big number under the S column isn't the way to go.  Just get the best reliever you can get.  Things will get sorted out from there.  Besides, I would rather not pigeon hole my best reliever into a 9th inning only role anyway.

I agree. Getting a lockdown closer isn't something you do until you are ready to compete. You piece meal and try to develop one until that point. If you can get someone to step up in the role: great. If not and the rest of the team is good, but getting dragged down by the back of the pen, make a trade or sign a FA for the spot. 

Right now, the Orioles aren't competing in 2022. They should get a couple starters to eat some innings and take pressure of the pen. See who of the young arms they have now fail as starters and try them in the pen and MAYBE add a low cost vet or two to the pen.

 

BACK TO THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD: I wouldn't trade John Means unless it's an overpay. A nearly ready top-40 prospect as the centerpiece of the trade would certainly make me consider such a deal. 

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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I get it but its not a need.  Paying up more money because someone has a big number under the S column isn't the way to go.  Just get the best reliever you can get.  Things will get sorted out from there.  Besides, I would rather not pigeon hole my best reliever into a 9th inning only role anyway.

As long as the reliever is not intimidated by the ninth inning I am fine with that.   Most if not all of the current relievers seem to think the ninth is so difficult.   And sure if the middle of the order comes up in the 8th using the best reliever then is the right thing to do as long as there is someone else that can cover the 9th.

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30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, even if they don’t all win 90 it still means something.   The division is very strong right now, even if you exclude games against the Orioles.   

By my calculation, Tampa, Toronto, Boston and New York are playing .590 ball when they play teams outside the AL East.    

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