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Just Regular

The Center Field Market, 2022

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Starting with The 30 who held the first string roles this season at the position.   OAA did not give a positional qualifier this year for HOU, LAA or ATL.   Sussing out trade market for Hays or Mullins should Elias defer Wins more into the future, ATL perhaps one buyer.   Astros PD seems to be good with their Meyers/McCormick, as the Straw midseason dump spoke louder than words.   LAA...yeah.    Sort by 2021 seasonal age.

37 - Brett Gardner     (in 2020 OAA, Aaron Hicks was L-A-S-T 39th of 39)

32 - Adam DuVall, Starling Marte      (Starling the only UFA who is any good - he should do well.   Possible trade suitors may hope to use $$$ for him, only one will be able to)

31 - Kevin Kiermaier, Jackie Bradley

30 - Michael Taylor, Tyler Naquin, Rafael Ortega

29 - Enrique Hernandez, Randal Grichuk, Mike Trout, Odubel Herrera

28 - Adolis Garcia, Brandon Nimmo

27 - Byron Buxton, Harrison Bader, Steven Duggar, Ketel Marte     

26 - Cedric Mullins, Myles Straw, Ramon Laureano, Bryan Reynolds, Garrett Hampson

25 - Jake Meyers, Cody Bellinger

24 - Victor Robles, Trent Grisham

23 - Luis Robert

22 - Akil Baddoo

21 - Jarred Kelenic

As is tradition, Yankees Correa richest team/best free agent stories popular in media, but their CF situation an issue area same as SS.   On the dirt, their Gunnar counterpart Anthony Volpe had a fantastic year - he might get a Machado 2012 type experience if they don't drop $25-30M/year on somebody.   I think I will be sad if they buy like Starling and Andrelton to keep the cap room open for Judge a year out, and gear down the enjoyable "only xwOBA matters" pickle they seem to currently be in.

Last year, Fangraphs positional Power Rankings pegged Orioles 20th and Pirates 27th...could they be 1/2 next year?

Among good teams despite less than ideal 2022 CF situations, I think I see NYY, PHI, ATL, MIL.   I would say SFG, but they seem to have the Lowenstein/Roenicke thing down all over the diamond.

Fangraphs Longenhagen's The Board this morning has org top prospects of:

NYY - Volpe, Peraza, Medina, Vargas (three of whom listed SS...hmmm)   Famous Jasson down to #6 in org there.

ATL - Pache, Langeliers, Waters, Harris

PHI - Abel, Stott     (and Alec Bohm beaten up badly by MLB pitching)

MIL - Ashby, Mitchell, Frelic, Quero, Small, Turang

In that group, Dombrowski feels like best bet to take Starling off Cashman.   I hope to see Mullins providing a big advantage for us for a nice 4-5 years, but if League thinks Hays is a real CF maybe this offseason is the right time.   2021 OAA only saw him ~50th percentile among LEFT fielders, though good arm helps there.

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I’ll say it again, Mullins is better suited to LF. His arm does not play in CF. That said, I’d trade him now while his value is at its peak. 

There is a glut of OF prospects in the system and more than one is capable of playing CF.

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I don't like the move of delaying further... we have important guys that we're going to be burning clock on.  I'd rather us take our first improvement steps this upcoming year. 

But if the powers that be decide that we go into more delay, I agree that we should turn trade Mullins this offseason... his trade value isn't going to ever be higher than now.

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4 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Starting with The 30 who held the first string roles this season at the position.   OAA did not give a positional qualifier this year for HOU, LAA or ATL.   Sussing out trade market for Hays or Mullins should Elias defer Wins more into the future, ATL perhaps one buyer.   Astros PD seems to be good with their Meyers/McCormick, as the Straw midseason dump spoke louder than words.   LAA...yeah.    Sort by 2021 seasonal age.

37 - Brett Gardner     (in 2020 OAA, Aaron Hicks was L-A-S-T 39th of 39)

32 - Adam DuVall, Starling Marte      (Starling the only UFA who is any good - he should do well.   Possible trade suitors may hope to use $$$ for him, only one will be able to)

31 - Kevin Kiermaier, Jackie Bradley

30 - Michael Taylor, Tyler Naquin, Rafael Ortega

29 - Enrique Hernandez, Randal Grichuk, Mike Trout, Odubel Herrera

28 - Adolis Garcia, Brandon Nimmo

27 - Byron Buxton, Harrison Bader, Steven Duggar, Ketel Marte     

26 - Cedric Mullins, Myles Straw, Ramon Laureano, Bryan Reynolds, Garrett Hampson

25 - Jake Meyers, Cody Bellinger

24 - Victor Robles, Trent Grisham

23 - Luis Robert

22 - Akil Baddoo

21 - Jarred Kelenic

As is tradition, Yankees Correa richest team/best free agent stories popular in media, but their CF situation an issue area same as SS.   On the dirt, their Gunnar counterpart Anthony Volpe had a fantastic year - he might get a Machado 2012 type experience if they don't drop $25-30M/year on somebody.   I think I will be sad if they buy like Starling and Andrelton to keep the cap room open for Judge a year out, and gear down the enjoyable "only xwOBA matters" pickle they seem to currently be in.

Last year, Fangraphs positional Power Rankings pegged Orioles 20th and Pirates 27th...could they be 1/2 next year?

Among good teams despite less than ideal 2022 CF situations, I think I see NYY, PHI, ATL, MIL.   I would say SFG, but they seem to have the Lowenstein/Roenicke thing down all over the diamond.

Fangraphs Longenhagen's The Board this morning has org top prospects of:

NYY - Volpe, Peraza, Medina, Vargas (three of whom listed SS...hmmm)   Famous Jasson down to #6 in org there.

ATL - Pache, Langeliers, Waters, Harris

PHI - Abel, Stott     (and Alec Bohm beaten up badly by MLB pitching)

MIL - Ashby, Mitchell, Frelic, Quero, Small, Turang

In that group, Dombrowski feels like best bet to take Starling off Cashman.   I hope to see Mullins providing a big advantage for us for a nice 4-5 years, but if League thinks Hays is a real CF maybe this offseason is the right time.   2021 OAA only saw him ~50th percentile among LEFT fielders, though good arm helps there.

At first I didn’t understand this list, but I hadn’t had a chance to read it fully, now that I do, I don’t think we should trade Mullins, of all the guys on the team, he’s the one we shouldn’t trade. Now of course we should trade him if we get a great deal, but we’re not going to get a good enough trade to make it worthwhile, so no.

Edited by Philip
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The Braves OF prospects - Pache, Waters, and Harris - are all interesting CF prospects that had somewhat disappointing  years - though given their young ages - are still quality prospects.  Pache is the defensive phenom of the group, while Harris and Waters still could stick at CF.  Being honest (I'm a Braves fan), despite all that talent, I don't think any of them are sure things to become better than average MLBers.  I think Harris has the best upside of them.  Re Braves non-pitching prospects, I think Langeliers (catcher) and SS Vaughn Grissom are both better prospects than the 3 OFers.        

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25 - Jake Meyers, Cody Bellinger

I'd be interested to hear folks' thoughts on Bellinger.  In 2019, he was beyond great - he was the MVP - an absolute phenom - and was also an outstanding defensive OFer.  Then, last year slipped to a .789 OPS, but it was a short season - so not a huge deal.  This year - a .542 OPS and a series of injuries.  And he's almost a year younger than Mullins.  He's under team control for 2 more years, but already made 16.1 million this season.  With Mullins not even eligible for arbitration until after next season and making next to nothing - and the Dodgers having so many free agents, it'd be a coup for them to get Mullins - allowing them to keep more of their free agents.  A Mullins for Bellinger plus prospects trade would have been unthinkable even a year ago, but now...?  

 

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8 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

25 - Jake Meyers, Cody Bellinger

I'd be interested to hear folks' thoughts on Bellinger.  In 2019, he was beyond great - he was the MVP - an absolute phenom - and was also an outstanding defensive OFer.  Then, last year slipped to a .789 OPS, but it was a short season - so not a huge deal.  This year - a .542 OPS and a series of injuries.  And he's almost a year younger than Mullins.  He's under team control for 2 more years, but already made 16.1 million this season.  With Mullins not even eligible for arbitration until after next season and making next to nothing - and the Dodgers having so many free agents, it'd be a coup for them to get Mullins - allowing them to keep more of their free agents.  A Mullins for Bellinger plus prospects trade would have been unthinkable even a year ago, but now...?  

 

That's an intruiging one.  What about Eddie Rosario as well?  He made $8 mil on a 1 year deal.  Not sure he can play center, but Hays probably can, and then we could trade Mullins for a decent haul on the pitching side.  Or Mancini/Santander.

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26 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

That's an intruiging one.  What about Eddie Rosario as well?  He made $8 mil on a 1 year deal.  Not sure he can play center, but Hays probably can, and then we could trade Mullins for a decent haul on the pitching side.  Or Mancini/Santander.

Rosario must be on cloud 9 right now.  He's not regarded as a good defensive OFer, but he he made a great catch in the 1st inning last night - preventing extra bases for Tre Turner - one of the Dodgers soon to be free agents.  He's a pure hitter - though he is prone to bad streaks and did not play well with Cleveland.  Rosario's walk-off liner went 105 MPH and Cory Seager (another soon to be free agent) understandably could not handle it.      

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1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

Rosario must be on cloud 9 right now.  He's not regarded as a good defensive OFer, but he he made a great catch in the 1st inning last night - preventing extra bases for Tre Turner - one of the Dodgers soon to be free agents.  He's a pure hitter - though he is prone to bad streaks and did not play well with Cleveland.  Rosario's walk-off liner went 105 MPH and Cory Seager (another soon to be free agent) understandably could not handle it.      

Seager also made an awful play on the ball.

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Technically, Seager should have had his glove down lower, but the instincts on a ball hit that hard are to protect one's life.  I think the results probably would have been the same if Turner was playing SS.  

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16 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Technically, Seager should have had his glove down lower, but the instincts on a ball hit that hard are to protect one's life.  I think the results probably would have been the same if Turner was playing SS.  

He also should have made an attempt to get in front of it.  Balls are hit that hard all the time.  It was a poor play by a guy who is going to be asking for 200+ million.

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47 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Rosario must be on cloud 9 right now.  He's not regarded as a good defensive OFer, but he he made a great catch in the 1st inning last night - preventing extra bases for Tre Turner - one of the Dodgers soon to be free agents.  He's a pure hitter - though he is prone to bad streaks and did not play well with Cleveland.  Rosario's walk-off liner went 105 MPH and Cory Seager (another soon to be free agent) understandably could not handle it.      

So let's back up.  Is he worth an $8mil or 2/$15 type of deal if we could get quality for Mullins and let Hays play CF?

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9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He also should have made an attempt to get in front of it.  Balls are hit that hard all the time.  It was a poor play by a guy who is going to be asking for 200+ million.

This is my number one gripe with modern day players in the IF. Too many balls played off to the side instead of getting your body in front of the ball. Players aren’t willing to take one off the chest.

When I played 2B in HS part of our routine in practice was to have teammates hit balls as hard as they could to guys around the IF. We fielded 100 balls per each practice and their incentive was to get out of running at the end of practice, a real motivator. The infielder who had the least amount of passed balls also was spared from wind sprints. I took it as a challenge never to lose that competition and I never did. I also went the entire season without making an error.

It’s incredible to me that ML players look often so weak when trying to field a hard hit ground ball.

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2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

This is my number one gripe with modern day players in the IF. Too many balls played off to the side instead of getting your body in front of the ball. Players aren’t willing to take one off the chest.

When I played 2B in HS part of our routine in practice was to have teammates hit balls as hard as they could to guys around the IF. We fielded 100 balls per each practice and their incentive was to get out of running at the end of practice, a real motivator. The infielder who had the least amount of passed balls also was spared from wind sprints. I took it as a challenge never to lose that competition and I never did. I also went the entire season without making an error.

It’s incredible to me that ML players look often so weak when trying to field a hard hit ground ball.

Did you walk five miles home from school after practice?

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6 hours ago, Ruzious said:

25 - Jake Meyers, Cody Bellinger

I'd be interested to hear folks' thoughts on Bellinger.  In 2019, he was beyond great - he was the MVP - an absolute phenom - and was also an outstanding defensive OFer.  Then, last year slipped to a .789 OPS, but it was a short season - so not a huge deal.  This year - a .542 OPS and a series of injuries.  And he's almost a year younger than Mullins.  He's under team control for 2 more years, but already made 16.1 million this season.  With Mullins not even eligible for arbitration until after next season and making next to nothing - and the Dodgers having so many free agents, it'd be a coup for them to get Mullins - allowing them to keep more of their free agents.  A Mullins for Bellinger plus prospects trade would have been unthinkable even a year ago, but now...?  

 

How far is Bellinger from free agency?  It would be nice to get him to sign to an extension, but I don't see a reason for him to do so.  If he even partially rebounds, he would want a $100 mill deal. 

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