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bigbird

Here lies the problem....

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Honestly, this is what I think:

1) I think they thought Tex would come here for less money.

2) To go along with #1, I think they were willing to offer a little more money, a vesting 8th year option and that that would be enough.

3) I think they believed that they had this thing read right.

This is my largest issue with all of this...I think they just totally overplayed there hand and looked terribly poor.

They just walk away from this with egg on their face.

This is a very real possibility. But it doesn't make much sense to me: they knew who the bidders would be, how big their coffers were, and how tempting that would be. They also knew that Teixeira had Boras as an agent, and thus was unlikely to be sentimental. (Or, at least, less likely).

I believe the Orioles knew they couldn't win a bidding war for Teix. Their only hope was for the bidding to stay low, and for them to come close enough to this that they could play to Teixeira's regional loyalties at the last second.

Thus, having that burden-shifting framework (that is, entry-level bid and the opportunity to offer a rebuttal bid) in play worked for them in two ways: they didn't bid against themselves (get trumped and get wiped out); and they had a failsafe test of Teixeira's true geographical loyalties.

I posted the "Prisoner's Dilemma" scenario before. I think the only hope the O's had was to hope that all of the actors worked in concert to keep the prices down.

In the end, it didn't matter: there was no hometown discount (or not enough of one) to make it happen.

No big deal, in the end, as much of a big deal as it seems.

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THAT IS WHAT THE ORIOLES DID!

The difference was we threw out some bs offer early on and then sat back and waited.

Here is hoping that you can understand our need to be aggressive versus the idea of the Yankees being able to do what they did.

AM handled this as poorly as you can.

I like AM, and all, but I am beginning to think he is not a risk taker nor aggressive enough to compete in this division. What is "the plan going forward"? We are minus a catcher and starter (not a bad thing mind you) and signed a stopgap SS. There is a whole lot to do!Please Andy, tell us the plan!

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I like AM, and all, but I am beginning to think he is not a risk taker nor aggressive enough to compete in this division. What is "the plan going forward"? We are minus a catcher and starter (not a bad thing mind you) and signed a stopgap SS. There is a whole lot to do!Please Andy, tell us the plan!

I think catcher is the least of our worries.

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To backpack off my post in another thread, I believe that AM played this as well as he could. But let's face it, he just didn't hold the right cards. Financially, I think AM knows that we could have paid Tex what the Yankees will, but I don't believe Tex would have took it. Maybe this "wow" offer would have been put out there had Boras not conducted a circus, had Tex actually wanted to be a hometown hero, and had AM not realized we would just be played and publicized if we had put the offer out there. Maybe, just maybe, AM convinced PA that paying Tex that much would not fit the "plan" and would not have been a sound investment. Maybe, PA has indeed let a baseball man run the team and stayed in the background, completely.

Let's face it, having Tex would have been nice. But we all know we won't compete against our great division. Look, I'm as impatient as the next person, and I really get angry at AM for having such a long and tedious long-term plan, but maybe its for the better. We've never actually committed to such a plan initiated by a qualified individual, to which AM is. Signing another Tex, or a Manny, or somebody like that, will be that much better when we actually have a certified pitching staff. Therefore, in 2-3 years when Tillman, Arrieta, and Matusz are up, then we can unload on someone. And frankly, I don't like the way these negotiations played out and I don't think Tex has acted like a franchise player.

I hate it that we didn't get him and I immediately vowed to not go to a game next year. And I will not go to a game without some young players miraculously stepping in and becoming fixtures with the team and the team just competing night in, night out. But I also believe there still is a light, it may not be as bright as it was just this morning, but there still remains a light. I don't care how we get to it, I just want to get to it, as do many faithful O's fans.

BTW, let me correct my earlier statement, I will go to the first game of the year and "cheer" on Tex from the 1st base line. As a matter of fact, I will inform him that his mother will still be welcomed at my paint store in Severna Park and I will still greet her with a smile. And I would never accidently give her the wrong color with the wrong sheen, nor would I forget to properly secure her paint. I will still carry it out to her car, but this time I will place it in a "special" place instead of the trunk. Right in the back seat, upside down... That is, after I collect on some of that Yankee money first with some unnecessary overselling and some misguided, but expert painting techniques/knowledge.

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BTW, let me correct my earlier statement, I will go to the first game of the year and "cheer" on Tex from the 1st base line. As a matter of fact, I will inform him that his mother will still be welcomed at my paint store in Severna Park and I will still greet her with a smile. And I would never accidently give her the wrong color with the wrong sheen, nor would I forget to properly secure her paint. I will still carry it out to her car, but this time I will place it in a "special" place instead of the trunk. Right in the back seat, upside down... That is, after I collect on some of that Yankee money first with some unnecessary overselling and some misguided, but expert painting techniques/knowledge.

And people thought I was nuts when I said that there would be retribution for the Teixeira family for Tex spurning the O's... :rolleyestf:

Maryland ain't gonna be a fun place for them to live...

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Then you go to him.
Being reported now (the link is in another thread I'm too tired to retrieve it) is Boston did just that. Repeatedly. And were not given a chance to counter. Boras didn't even return their call essentially.

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First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

Sorry for the vent....

Excellent post. I think this is exactly what Angelos wants and do not expect this team to ever contend while he is the owner.

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I honestly see the Orioles becoming the Marlins of the American League.

I would take this in a minute! They won two championships in seven years. And while they traded away talent for prospects, the prospects were generally very good and there was positive momentum towards improvement. The team was even competitive during some seasons where they had no business being decent. The Marlins had real peaks (championships) and valleys while the only peak the Orioles have had in the past 11 years is being over .500 for the first 60ish games of the season in 2005.

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First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

Sorry for the vent....

And then you bash him for 7 paragraphs. :laughlol: Gee, who would've

figured that?:rolleyes:

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How does attempting to sign Looper, Hendrickson etal help? Adding more dung to dung doesn't make salad.

Whatever pitchers we add to this team between now and spring training will be short term 1 or 2 year deals to get us through to next year. When MacPhail took the job, he said it'd take 2-3 years to turn this thing around. This will be his 2nd full year.

Next year I'll start worrying about results. Right now, just keep monitoring the MiL box scores and hope the Matusz', Arrieta's and Tillman's of the world don't go down with labrums or TJS.

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My question for BB and the posters that say AM has not done enough is what specifically as he passed on that was a mistake? I am dissapointed that we did not get Tex but overall I feel we have good leadership currently. The moves I hear about all of the time are trading Brob or Huff, well I believe no one has offered the right package for either player and I view both has solid above average MLers that I think we should get excellant value for if we are going to move them. He got value for Ramon, which I think was a dump in reality but he still got very good value , IMO. Personally I think everyone other than Jones and Nick are tradable to the FO currently if the right deal comes along.

BTW I know this will not be real popular but I think we should quitely explore moving Guthrie. I really like him however, He is 30+ Years old has middle of the rotation stuff and has overperformed IMO. I think a budgeted contendor might give up a big package to get him.

We are still going to be a better team then last year IMO and we have much better young talent than when AM signed on. We still have a long way to go but progress is being made IMO.

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Honestly, this is what I think:

1) I think they thought Tex would come here for less money.

2) To go along with #1, I think they were willing to offer a little more money, a vesting 8th year option and that that would be enough.

3) I think they believed that they had this thing read right.

This is my largest issue with all of this...I think they just totally overplayed there hand and looked terribly poor.

They just walk away from this with egg on their face.

I agree with this except for #3. Unlike Vlad, when our front office looked arrogant running around saying that they weren't going to bid against themselves for Vlad, I think here they were hoping they had it read right.

With Vlad, the FO honestly thought Vlad had no other choice and they could just wait it out. Even if he was never going to come here, the FO's arrogant take it or leave it attitude would have turned anyone off.

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Another problem with the O's is when we do go out and spend money on FA's we sign guys like Kevin Millar, Jay Payton or Corey Patterson. Look at the guys AM said he wants for the rotation. Reddding? Looper? and most of all Hendrickson????? If we ink Hendrickson I hope he stays in Norfolk. And then to fill that catchers roll we want Gregg Zaun? It's crazy if we are going to ink players to millon dollar deals then we need to get talent and not stock. There are players on the market that the Orioles could use now and the future. Like Paul Lo Duca perfect back up catcher and fill gap intil Wieters,Brad Penny injured last year but has great upside,Adam Dunn power+ more power,Jon Garland inning eater and Joe Crede could replace Mora has good glove. I know AM said we won't go after Dunn inless the priced dropped but they guy would destroy in the AL given the chance to DH and play the field 40+ Homers. There is also trading people that have been mention to be avaible Nick Swisher, Joey Votto, Jorge Cantu and Ryan Garko. If we are going to sign people to a million dollar contract at least sign someone that can help us. Spend money wisely. GO O's

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