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Mark Hendrickson

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I love this message board... only this board would have 20 pages dedicated to Mark Hendrickson...

As a Dodgers fan he will be a serviceable 5th starting pitcher, who from time to time willl have some above average starts....

I would rather sign him to a reasonable deal then commit two or three years and $10 million a year to a mediocrity like Jon Garland who is pretty much the same pitcher from the right side...

A good value for the O's

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I would much rather see Chris Waters out there.

This is a flat out horrible move.

Just another example of the Orioles spending way too much money for poor production.

Right. I agree. If you're going to expect a 5.25 ERA from Hendrickson, then why sign him at all and waste the money when you've got guys like Waters and Bass who could very likely do the same?

I know people are saying Hendrickson can get you 160-180 IP, but if we're not expecting anything of value from him other than those innings, then force Waters and Bass to pitch that many innings to, regardless of how many runs they let up.

There really is no way to justify this move.

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Right. I agree. If you're going to expect a 5.25 ERA from Hendrickson, then why sign him at all and waste the money when you've got guys like Waters and Bass who could very likely do the same?

I know people are saying Hendrickson can get you 160-180 IP, but if we're not expecting anything of value from him other than those innings, then force Waters and Bass to pitch that many innings to, regardless of how many runs they let up.

There really is no way to justify this move.

I don't think Waters or Bass could put up a 5.25 ERA over 160 innings.

Bottom line is Hendrickson is a slight upgrade over what we got from people other than Guthrie last year in the rotation. As long as his contract isn't big enough that they hesitate to release him once its time, and that time is when a younger pitcher needs the spot, its an ok move. Those saying it is a terrible move are vastly overstating things, taking out their anger about the entire state of the team by bashing this move. On its own, this move is ok, not good, but not terrible either. Hendrickson should be able to hold down a rotation spot for the first 2-3 months and then give way to someone like Patton or Hernandez or Bergesen.

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Its very obvious that this is just a stop gap move. Its not like anybody, MacPhail included, thinks this move does anything other than get roughly replacement level performance from one of the rotation spots.

Its a lazy move for sure, but its not something that is absolutely awful. And its also not a move that will preclude us from doing something smart if it comes along and/or they do the work required to do something intelligent.

Stop gaps don't have to be absolute crappy pitchers. They can be Odalis Perez or Esteban Loaiza or Carl Pavano...

But to sign a guy who has had 2 straight years of a ballooned 5+ ERA in 2 of the best stadiums for pitchers, is just absolutely horrendous. Like SG said in another thread, we've got Waters, we've got Bass... hell we've got Simon and other guys who could put up crap numbers like Hendrickson will for much less.

Why? Why? Why God why must we have to put on orange glasses to justify every move this frakking team make?

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The Baltimore Sun mentions Hendrickson will function as a long reliever and spot starter.

I think that this is a good move since Hendrickson will be a long reliever. If the starters cannot go more than 3 to 5 innings, we will have decent long relievers to pick up the slack and try to keep the games in reach or stop an onslaught. :scratchchinhmm:

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I don't think Waters or Bass could put up a 5.25 ERA over 160 innings.

Bottom line is Hendrickson is a slight upgrade over what we got from people other than Guthrie last year in the rotation. As long as his contract isn't big enough that they hesitate to release him once its time, and that time is when a younger pitcher needs the spot, its an ok move. Those saying it is a terrible move are vastly overstating things, taking out their anger about the entire state of the team by bashing this move. On its own, this move is ok, not good, but not terrible either. Hendrickson should be able to hold down a rotation spot for the first 2-3 months and then give way to someone like Patton or Hernandez or Bergesen.

Hendrickson put up a 5+ ERA in LA and FLA... two of the best pitching parks in the league. His ERA in OPACY will be above 6... regardless of if he is in the rotation or the bullpen.

This move makes no sense and people are justifying this signing like they were justifying the Jared Wright trade in 2007 and Steve Trachsel signing in 2008. We all know how those moves turned out...

Just admit it's a lazy move, and one that is 99.9% likely to be an EPIC FAIL!

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Stop gaps don't have to be absolute crappy pitchers. They can be Odalis Perez or Esteban Loaiza or Carl Pavano...

But to sign a guy who has had 2 straight years of a ballooned 5+ ERA in 2 of the best stadiums for pitchers, is just absolutely horrendous. Like SG said in another thread, we've got Waters, we've got Bass... hell we've got Simon and other guys who could put up crap numbers like Hendrickson will for much less.

Why? Why? Why God why must we have to put on orange glasses to justify every move this frakking team make?

You don't need orange glasses to justify this move.

You need orange glasses to love this move, but if you just look at what it is, it makes some sense. He's likely going to be better than all the guys you mentioned. They are basically spending a small amount of money to hopefully have someone who can function as a 5th starter, rather than risk having someone who will have a 7 ERA. We had an ERA over 6 for roughly 700 innings from pitchers other than Guthrie. We can use a slight upgrade. We'll still probably have to settle for a handful of starts or more from the likes of Waters and Bass even with Hendrickson, but he adds some depth and essentially is just a placeholder until Patton, Hernandez, or Bergesen are ready.

If we signed someone like Pavano, we'd be committed for more money, and less willing to dump them once a younger guy is ready. I'd rather have Hendrickson for $1M than Pavano for $4M. If Hendrickson signs for anything considerably higher of that, my opinion of the move will go down drastically.

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You don't need orange glasses to justify this move.

You need orange glasses to love this move, but if you just look at what it is, it makes some sense. He's likely going to be better than all the guys you mentioned. They are basically spending a small amount of money to hopefully have someone who can function as a 5th starter, rather than risk having someone who will have a 7 ERA. We had an ERA over 6 for roughly 700 innings from pitchers other than Guthrie. We can use a slight upgrade. We'll still probably have to settle for a handful of starts or more from the likes of Waters and Bass even with Hendrickson, but he adds some depth and essentially is just a placeholder until Patton, Hernandez, or Bergesen are ready.

If we signed someone like Pavano, we'd be committed for more money, and less willing to dump them once a younger guy is ready. I'd rather have Hendrickson for $1M than Pavano for $4M. If Hendrickson signs for anything considerably higher of that, my opinion of the move will go down drastically.

It seems like you are OK with this move. I am not. And no matter how much justification is given for it, I will not like it. I am tired of these kinds of signings year after year. Maybe if one of them worked out every now and then I'd be OK with the occasional Mark Hendrickson but every signing like this we make, it fails. And that is because the guys we sign are flat out horrible and have no upside.

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I'm going to repeat something I've said on several threads now - I don't want to sign a pitcher for our rotation if his track record shows he averages substantially under 6 innings per start. Hendrickson's been at 5.09 and 5.32 the last two years. Signing a pitcher like that for the rotation just ensures that our bullpen will continue to be overtaxed. If we go into 2009 with only one pitcher (Guthrie) who averages 6 IP per start, we'll be very, very sorry come July.

So Hendrickson is adequate for long reliever/spot starter, but I'm completely against signing him if he's a substitute for somebody else who could reasonably be expected to average 6 IP per start.

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It seems like you are OK with this move. I am not. And no matter how much justification is given for it, I will not like it. I am tired of these kinds of signings year after year. Maybe if one of them worked out every now and then I'd be OK with the occasional Mark Hendrickson but every signing like this we make, it fails. And that is because the guy is flat out horrible and has no upside.
5.25 ERA over 160 innings isn't flat out horrible. What we got last year from most of our starters was flat out horrible. 5.25 ERA over 160 innings would be bad, but bad is an upgrade.

You are getting confused. You really don't have a major problem with this move. Its not a terrible one. Its a mediocre, lazy move, but its not horrible. What you are angry about is the continued existence of moves like this. This specific move isn't a big problem, the overall gameplan does seem to be a problem though. However, I think committing lots of money to mediocre pitchers would be a mistake. I don't really even want to sign Sheets or Kawakami, because I don't think those guys will be impact players when we are competing (Kawakami especially). Rebuilding sucks, but if you start freaking out when they are actually following the blueprint of a rebuild, you never actually get rebuilt, you just stay terrible.

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I like it also, he is far better then anyone we have besides Guthrie. Orioles fans need to stop always looking at the negative.

I was lying, I actually hate this move. I just typed that to see if I'd feel better about it after typing it. You know, like trying to talk myself into it.

Yep, still hate it.

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5.25 ERA over 160 innings isn't flat out horrible. What we got last year from most of our starters was flat out horrible. 5.25 ERA over 160 innings would be bad, but bad is an upgrade.

You are getting confused. You really don't have a major problem with this move. Its not a terrible one. Its a mediocre, lazy move, but its not horrible. What you are angry about is the continued existence of moves like this. This specific move isn't a big problem, the overall gameplan does seem to be a problem though. However, I think committing lots of money to mediocre pitchers would be a mistake. I don't really even want to sign Sheets or Kawakami, because I don't think those guys will be impact players when we are competing (Kawakami especially). Rebuilding sucks, but if you start freaking out when they are actually following the blueprint of a rebuild, you never actually get rebuilt, you just stay terrible.

Mackus.... you keep saying that Hendrickson will put up 160 IP of a 5.25 ERA like it's almost a given. Back it up with something! Hendrickson couldn't manage anything less than that in the NL, where the #9 hitter is an automatic out, and the stadiums he pitched in were ginormous. How is he going to maintain a 5.25 ERA in something akin to a bandbox and facing the Red Sox, Yanks and Rays 10-20 times (depending on whether he is in the rotation or BP)?

There is no way he gets his ERA south of 6.00 in 2009.

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Mackus.... you keep saying that Hendrickson will put up 160 IP of a 5.25 ERA like it's almost a given. Back it up with something! Hendrickson couldn't manage anything less than that in the NL, where the #9 hitter is an automatic out, and the stadiums he pitched in were ginormous. How is he going to maintain a 5.25 ERA in something akin to a bandbox and facing the Red Sox, Yanks and Rays 10-20 times (depending on whether he is in the rotation or BP)?

There is no way he gets his ERA south of 6.00 in 2009.

That what I think he'll put up. I'll use 1970's analysis as my evidence, if you wanna go back and find where he made it.

I'm more worried about him reaching the 160 innings than him having an ERA significantly over 5.25.

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