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frankpembleton

Mussina a Hall of Famer?

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In 1995 and 1996 he definnately won 20 games, unfortunately the bullpen blew the leads when he left the games and never got the wins.

If the bullpen blowing the leads count as wins, the 2007 Orioles would be in first place now and Bedard and Guthrie would have 15 wins each. Mussina never got 20 wins.

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I think he's deserving but not sure that he'll get in (at least not initially) w/o a few more good years to pad the win totals. It's unfair but I think many (and many voters will) see him as the almost guy.... Almost won twenty games, almost threw no-hitters, almost won a CY Young, almost won 300 games, etc... In other words, almost a HOF.

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Just to add to what MWeb and Lietch said...He threw 200 innings 10 times and just missed out on an 11th.

He has also been a solid postseason pitcher and was dominant in 1997.

I think Mweb is right...The lack of 20 win seasons, Cy Young award and WS ring(thus far) may keep him out.

I think he needs to get to 250 wins...20 wins is much tougher to get now than it was years ago, so maybe that won't be held against him too much but i suspect it will.

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Just to add to what MWeb and Lietch said...He threw 200 innings 10 times and just missed out on an 11th.

He has also been a solid postseason pitcher and was dominant in 1997.

I think Mweb is right...The lack of 20 win seasons, Cy Young award and WS ring(thus far) may keep him out.

I think he needs to get to 250 wins...20 wins is much tougher to get now than it was years ago, so maybe that won't be held against him too much but i suspect it will.

Well he has 244 now, so he should easily get 250.

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Yes, he was great in '92, '94, '95, and '01, borderline great in about 4 other seasons.

He's been in the top 6 in the AL in ERA 9 times, 4 of those being top 3. 7 times in the top 5 in wins including 1st once. 10 times in the top 5 in WHIP, 6 of those in the top 3. 8 times in the top 6 in k's/9.

I know he was.

I meant his overall career.

Blyleven had some great years, Morris was the greatest pitcher in the AL for a decade and they aren't in.

I like Mussina but I just don't know if he has done enough for the majority of the voters.

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I know he was.

I meant his overall career.

Blyleven had some great years, Morris was the greatest pitcher in the AL for a decade and they aren't in.

I like Mussina but I just don't know if he has done enough for the majority of the voters.

No he wasn't and BB should be in.

I think Moose should be a shoo-in personally but i think it will be tough for him to get in.

I hadn't realized he was as close to 250 as he is...He may need more like 270+ to get in.

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No he wasn't and BB should be in.

I think Moose should be a shoo-in personally but i think it will be tough for him to get in.

I hadn't realized he was as close to 250 as he is...He may need more like 270+ to get in.

I think Moose will eventually get in but depending on when he hangs 'em up relative to Maddux and Clemens it could take years. Next to guys like that his resume looks thin although I do agree that it should be enough.

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I think Moose will eventually get in but depending on when he hangs 'em up relative to Maddux and Clemens it could take years. Next to guys like that his resume looks thin although I do agree that it should be enough.

Tough to get a read on how long he can pitch for as well.

He has always been a relatively healthy pitcher...Stays in good shape and has a strong work ethic.

He could conceivably hang on for another 3-5 years IMO. His K numbers are way down this year and maybe that means he is almost done, since he is 38...Or maybe he is just having an off year becaus ehe has had injury issues.

Tough to say....He was very good last year but, at his age, he could be done at any time.

However, if he is able to finish strong and bounce back next year, maybe he can finish his career in the NL or something and pad some of his stats and perhaps, go to a team where maybe he can win a title.

I guess he has an outside chance at 300 wins but he would probably have to pitch another 3-4 years to really have a shot.

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He's borderline, and how he finishes his career will be important. If he continues to pitch as he has so far this year through this season and the next, he may fizzle out just short of the finish line. But if he rebounds, has a winning record by the time this year is over and again next year and gets to, say, 265 wins in the process, I think he has a very good shot. If you look behind Moose, once he passes 250 wins, it could be a long time before anyone else passes that mark:

Mussina (38) 244

Wells (44) 235

Moyer (44) 225

Schilling (40) 213

Rogers (42) 210

Martinez (35) 206

Smoltz (40) 203

Pettitte (35) 192

Wakefield (40) 163

Due to injuries and/or age, none of those guys are sure things, and beyond them everyone is 100+ wins away. So 250 is going to be looking pretty good by the time Mussina has been retired for 5 years.

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I've been trying to decide whether or not Mussina is a sure-fire hall of famer. As of now, is he definitely in?

If he does get in, does he go in as an Oriole or Yankee?

What does everyone think?

Unless he suddenly does something astonishing late in his career that he has yet to do (win a Cy Young, 20 games, pitch a no-hitter, or pitch his team to several World Series wins including a series clincher), I would say no way should he be included in the HOF. If you review his career he should be known as "Mr. Almost" where he has almost done great things but has none of the things above that most HOF pitchers have one of more of. To put him in with guys like Roger Clemens, Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver, etc. would weaken the HOF. In short he was a very good but not great pitcher. The HOF is for greatness not almost great players.

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Unless he suddenly does something astonishing late in his career that he has yet to do (win a Cy Young, 20 games, pitch a no-hitter, or pitch is team to several World Series wins including a series clincher), I would say no way should he be included in the HOF. If you review his career he should be known as "Mr. Almost" where he has almost done great things but has none of the things above that most HOF pitchers have one of more of. To put him in with guys like Roger Clemens, Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver, etc. would weaken the HOF. In short he was a very good but not great pitcher. The HOF is for greatness not almost great players.

Mussina is already better than numerous pitchers who are in the Hall of Fame. There are 26 pitchers in the Hall of Fame who have fewer wins than Mussina; 34 who have a lower ERA+ than Mussina; 51 who have a lower winning percentage than Mussina. The fact that he is not as good as some Hall of Famers isn't the issue.

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He was 16-5 in 1994 in a strike-shortened 115 game season. He also had 19 wins and led the league in 1995 in a 144 game strike-shortened season. Those are essentially 20-win seasons even though he didn't hit the magic number. He is a Hall-of-Famer, especially since he is better than many that are in, there aren't many that are better than him and not in and there are not many that will come after him and put up better numbers due to the way starting pitchers and bullpens are used today.

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Mussina is already better than numerous pitchers who are in the Hall of Fame. There are 26 pitchers in the Hall of Fame who have fewer wins than Mussina; 34 who have a lower ERA+ than Mussina; 51 who have a lower winning percentage than Mussina. The fact that he is not as good as some Hall of Famers isn't the issue.

Big deal, he's pitched well for a long period of time. So what? That to me, sure doesn't mean he is necessarily worthy of the HOF. What has he done that was particularly outstanding like most HOF pitchers? Heck, Dennis Martinez had a lot of wins and pitched a long time and even had a perfect game. Under your scenario maybe he should get in ahead of Mussina? In my view Martinez was also a very good but not great pitcher. I personally don't feel Mike Mussina is or ever was a truly great pitcher either. He was very good, and almost made it to greatness at various times but never quite got there despite numerous opportunities to prove he was elite enough to be HOF material.

Sorry, I just don't see it, just as I don't think Dennis Martinez is hall worthy either and unfortunately played on lesser talented teams which probably hurt his winning percentage much more in comparison to Mussina. I think Curt Schilling will stand a better chance of making it than Mussina, as he was a great pitcher who was far more dominant than the overated Mussina during essentially the same time frames.

Schilling won't have the longevity stats of Mussina, but the HOF is not primarily about longevity. To put it simply, Schilling was a geat pitcher and dominated by showing it whereas Mussina was just a very good pitcher who has hung around a long time. If they had an "Almost HOF" Mussina, Dennis Martinez, Dave McNally, and guys like Boog and Ken Singleton would populate it. That is where Mike Mussina fits in best, with that crowd, not elite Hall of famers like Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Tom Seaver, and Jim Palmer to mention a few!Those guys were far superior to Mike Mussina or Dennis Martinez, just like Frank Robinson was superior to Ken Singleton and Eddie Murray to Boog! If you can't see the difference I don't know how else to convince you!

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