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BillySmith

Chicago Tribune: O's Have Improved

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This has been an entertaining read this morning getting ready to go to work.

"Answer my questions."

"No, you answer my question first."

"I am not going to answer you becasue you keep dodging my questions".

Other posters jumpin' on and throwin' names around.

Nah nahhh na naahhhh nah. :P

Too funny, like little kids.

One side saying the team has not improved, especially for the out years. This same side saying nothing has been done, no impact free agent signings, no significant trades, nada.

The other side saying, how can we improve when there are no trades to be had, no free agents worth signing. This other side asks what trades/free agent signings have we missed out on to improve?

I actually find that EACH side make an acceptable point in this argument at this point. That's what makes it such an oddly interesting issue and debate.

Just another day on OH. :D

WAKE UP!

Oh, by the way, we have not improved that much at all really IMHO, just more smoke and mirrors. ;)

This is exactly how I reacted, but a little later, once I was at work. That argument was juvenile.

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Almost by definition if you make a statement like 100% fact you will be proven wrong by something and just look pompus.

Since Bedard the O's drafted and signed Matusz Talent for the long-term.

Matusz isn't really a MacPhail thing though...That is more Jordan.

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BTW, many of the same arguments that people are using to defend AM are the same arguments used when those same people defended Flanny, Beattie and Duq.

Amazing that people don't see that.

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Matusz isn't really a MacPhail thing though...That is more Jordan.

AM is the GM he should bear the credit or blame for the entire organization, IMO. I really do not think it is fair to judge him any other way. I still do not think we know how AM is realy doing yet. I think it will be the allstar break of 2010 before it is fair to make a real judgement.

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We know all the names that have been signed or traded for over the past year...We know the BRob to the Cubs deal...We know that Guthrie could be dealt because of his value and salary. We know all of this...Shouldn't be hard for to figure this moves out.

You all think I bash AM for the hell of it...I have had one gripe the entire time...He has not brought in enough depth and talent to this organization sine the Bedard deal...That is my gripe...It can not be argued against...It is an absolute, stone cold, 100% fact.

What is a matter of opinion is whether there were any transactions available that MacPhail should have done to bring more depth and talent. We don't know what transactions have been proposed or not. We've heard a million rumors about Roberts to the Cubs deal, but there is so much conflict there that I have no idea what offer was actually ever put on the table and rejected by either side. I know that most of the proposals I heard, I wouldn't have done, and as to the proposals I heard that I liked better, I was never confident they were really available.

I'm open to trading Roberts, Huff, Scott, Guthrie, Sherrill or any other veteran who can bring back good value. But just because you say there is good value out there to be had for these (or other) players doesn't make it so. That's your opinion, and frankly, you're guessing.

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Matusz isn't really a MacPhail thing though...That is more Jordan.

You gave no qualifiers. You simply asked who have we added for the long term.

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Izturis > The Fab 5

Gomez > The Fab 5

Freel > Payton

Wieters > Hernandez

Hendrickson > Burres

Uehara > DCab

I think all these statements are true. If we can add Zaun, then Zaun > Quiroz.

I also think our bullpen should have more depth than last year, though bigird's cryptic remark that Albers would not be ready for spring training has me concerned.

I'm still very concerned about our rotation, though. I guess here's one way to look at it:

Olson 26 starts, 6.65 ERA

Liz 17 starts, 6.72 ERA

Trachsel 8 starts, 8.82 ERA

Sarfate 4 starts, 10.34 ERA

Loewen 4 starts, 7.85 ERA

Collectively, 59 starts, 284.2 IP, 228 ER, 4.83 IP/Start, 7.21 ERA.

I suppose if you gave all those starts to Olson and Liz, they could hardly do worse.

Edited by Frobby

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Izturis > The Fab 5

Gomez > The Fab 5

Freel > Payton

Wieters > Hernandez

Hendrickson > Burres

Uehara > DCab

You know what popped into my head immediately upon reading this?

"That's not saying much".

Meaning of course, hard not to improve on that sad lot.

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You know what popped into my head immediately upon reading this?

"That's not saying much".

Yeah, it's the very definition of low-hanging fruit.

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Izturis > The Fab 5

Gomez > The Fab 5

Freel > Payton

Wieters > Hernandez

Hendrickson > Burres

Uehara > DCab

I think all these statements are true. If we can add Zaun, then Zaun > Quiroz.

I also think our bullpen should have more depth than last year, though bigird's cryptic remark that Albers would not be ready for spring training has me concerned.

I'm still very concerned about our rotation, though. I guess here's one way to look at it:

Olson 26 starts, 6.65 ERA

Liz 17 starts, 6.72 ERA

Trachsel 8 starts, 8.82 ERA

Sarfata 4 starts, 10.34 ERA

Loewen 4 starts, 7.85 ERA

Collectively, 59 starts, 284.2 IP, 228 ER, 4.83 IP/Start, 7.21 ERA.

I suppose if you gave all those starts to Olson and Liz, they could hardly do worse.

The rotation was SO BAD last year that you have to think they do better simply due to the belief that natural progression will take them that far. I think the Uehara signing will help out a lot.

We have two guys in Arietta and Tillman that I feel will be competing for a rotation job this Spring and at the very least will be sitting in the minors ready to come up when needed.

The question remains will players like Markakis, Jones and Wieters be good enough to make up for the predictable decline from Huff and Mora? I highly doubt Huff is the DH Silver Slugger again, I hope he is, but I doubt it. I doubt Mora has another Summer like he had, I hope he does but odds are he won't.

Will the three young guys be enough to make up that difference?

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Collectively, 59 starts, 284.2 IP, 228 ER, 4.83 IP/Start, 7.21 ERA.

I suppose if you gave all those starts to Olson and Liz, they could hardly do worse.

One more thing, if we can't find two pitchers in our minor league system that could NOT beat those numbers - then we are in VERY serious trouble.

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Izturis > The Fab 5

Gomez > The Fab 5

Freel > Payton

Wieters > Hernandez

Hendrickson > Burres

Uehara > DCab

I think all these statements are true. If we can add Zaun, then Zaun > Quiroz.

I also think our bullpen should have more depth than last year, though bigird's cryptic remark that Albers would not be ready for spring training has me concerned.

I'm still very concerned about our rotation, though. I guess here's one way to look at it:

Olson 26 starts, 6.65 ERA

Liz 17 starts, 6.72 ERA

Trachsel 8 starts, 8.82 ERA

Sarfate 4 starts, 10.34 ERA

Loewen 4 starts, 7.85 ERA

Collectively, 59 starts, 284.2 IP, 228 ER, 4.83 IP/Start, 7.21 ERA.

I suppose if you gave all those starts to Olson and Liz, they could hardly do worse.

Payton was worth more last year than Freel. He did cost a bit more, however.

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What is a matter of opinion is whether there were any transactions available that MacPhail should have done to bring more depth and talent. We don't know what transactions have been proposed or not. We've heard a million rumors about Roberts to the Cubs deal, but there is so much conflict there that I have no idea what offer was actually ever put on the table and rejected by either side. I know that most of the proposals I heard, I wouldn't have done, and as to the proposals I heard that I liked better, I was never confident they were really available.

I'm open to trading Roberts, Huff, Scott, Guthrie, Sherrill or any other veteran who can bring back good value. But just because you say there is good value out there to be had for these (or other) players doesn't make it so. That's your opinion, and frankly, you're guessing.

Well, I do know who was dealt...Guys like Milledge, Quentin, etc....So, to say I am guessing there is pretty absurd.

I know that BRob could have been dealt to the Cubs and that the offer on the table is better than 2 picks, better than extending BRob and as of right now, better than any other offer we have.

I also know that if AM can't generate good value for Guthrie that AM is terrible at his job.

I also know that teams are money poor right now and doing things like taking on A Jones or Dye or someone like that could really benefit us in a large way in terms of what else we can get in the deal.

These are things that either have happened or common sense tells you that they would happen.

Part of AM's job is to sell his players to other teams and aggressively go out there and try and get things done. Part of his job is to NOT sit around and wait for things to fall in his lap.

Now, I know for a fact that he has tried to push the trade of BRob recently...So, I am glad to see him be the aggressor for once and I think that is a good sign.

Personally, I think he lacks the vision to deal a guy like Guthrie because of the focus on 2009.

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I know that BRob could have been dealt to the Cubs and that the offer on the table is better than 2 picks, better than extending BRob and as of right now, better than any other offer we have.
For what value those guys had last year, that would have been a good traed. But every player involved from the Cubs end has seen their value go down since then. I would have made the deal at the time, but am very happy that we ended up not making the deal, as it would have ended up being a bad trade for us. The only person in the deal I expect to be anything more than a end of the bench type player is Gallagher. Don't know if I'd rather have him or two picks.

I still don't think letting him walk for the picks is better than extending him, but its really a moot point, IMO, since I don't think he has any interest in extending.

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The question remains will players like Markakis, Jones and Wieters be good enough to make up for the predictable decline from Huff and Mora? I highly doubt Huff is the DH Silver Slugger again, I hope he is, but I doubt it. I doubt Mora has another Summer like he had, I hope he does but odds are he won't.

Will the three young guys be enough to make up that difference?

I think so, especially Jones and Wieters. I think we get more from Scott, and more from Izturis/Gomez/Freel/backup C too. So it's mostly a wash offensively but maybe a bit better even if Huff and Mora slip.

One more thing, if we can't find two pitchers in our minor league system that could NOT beat those numbers - then we are in VERY serious trouble.

Well, we didn't find them last year. I'v been amazed how often I thought we couldn't do worse, and then we did so (e.g., the 2006-07 bullpens).

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