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BillySmith

Chicago Tribune: O's Have Improved

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It does, however, make arguing with him pretty unproductive.

All right, I'm done with discussing SG's merits as a poster. I suggest we get back to the topic.

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Personally, I don't mind that SG is so sure of the positions he takes. His philosophy is pretty consistent. To the extent we disagree, most often it is because he assumes certain transactions are possible or easy to do. I've changed my mind plenty of times based on SG's arguments, put it that way.

I didn't mean that anyone should be affronted, Frobby. I'm just talking about methodologies here - as I think I made clear later. How do we make those decisions? And what do we do when confronted with new information or interpretations?

For instance, many on here were crying for Sheets and deriding the O's for not being in on the "bargain." Then Baltimoron posted a series of articles that showed, in fact, that Sheets had major health flags. More info = is less clamoring.

Now, a lot of times, when we have incomplete information, we never get that little bit of new information to fill in the blanks. That's why I asked what I did. It's a tempermental difference, I suppose. I test and re-test my hypotheses and/or conclusions regularly.

I'm not saying anyone is required to. And I'm not calling anyone's intelligence, character or whathaveyou into question.

I just know what methodology I prefer at the helm of the O's.

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I apologize if this appeared to be about SG's merits as a poster. I think those are unquestionable.

I was talking about baseball decisions and how we make them. That's it.

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I've never been a fan of the Cubs package for BRob.

We may look back in two more years and regret that Gallagher is not on that team since BRob could be gone and we would have nothing to show for him - except perhaps for a draft pick or two. In that case, sure, we might acknowledge in 2011 that that team would have been better off if we had accepted the Cubs offer.

In general, however, I don't think that Gallagher's production is a very high bar to clear and I would have no regrets over the risk AM took in passing on the Cubs offer in search of a better one.

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I've never been a fan of the Cubs package for BRob.

We may look back in two more years and regret that Gallagher is not on that team since BRob could be gone and we would have nothing to show for him - except perhaps for a draft pick or two. In that case, sure, we might acknowledge in 2011 that that team would have been better off if we had accepted the Cubs offer.

In general, however, I don't think that Gallagher's production is a very high bar to clear and I would have no regrets over the risk AM took in passing on the Cubs offer in search of a better one.

One could argue that Gallagher will have a better 2009 than Gavin Floyd.

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The question has been posed, what has Maphail done to improve the depth of this organization since the Bedard deal?

This is probably a trick question but here goes.

First we held an Amateur draft in June which was pretty successful in adding positional depth throughout the system and also added a top of the rotation starter.

It has been pointed out here that the Orioles spent more money in the "deeper" rounds then they have in years, suggesting a willingness to go above the slot to get quality talent.

Sixty percent of the top ten selections were for positional players, which addressed a critical organziational need. In general the entire draft reflected this bias.

Matusz P

Avery of

Hoes If

Miclat if

Hudson Of

Zagne SP

Joseph 1b, C

Bundy Sp

Haughian SP

Herrmann 3b

As far as other transactions that MacPhail has completed since the Bedard deal, I can only think of the Hernandez deal in which I thought we got more then was expected. I especially like Turner whoes minor league numbers show a lot of promise. We'll see how he does in the Eastern League this year.

Waring is raw but could be a bonus.

I did like the acquasition of Perez. Many think he is ready right now as a set up man/ closer. I like having him at AA as more bull pen depth.

I've certainly missed some things and I'm sure that it can be argued that Macphail could have doen more but I think he has made some productive moves.

Edited by 33rdst

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There are very few missed opportunities I see when I look back. The Cubs offer may haunt us, Milledge seemed like a reasonable target, and I'm still hung up on Dayan Viciedo - 4 years and $11M doesn't seem unaffordable and he's supposed to be great. I don't understand why every team isn't in on players like that.

If I had one specific gripe it'd be that I can't believe we couldn't have matched Schneider and Church for Milledge with some kind of Ramon Hernandez offer, although Milledge has been pretty unspectacular so far.

I think Scott to the Cubs made too much sense to not happen but they seemed happier to risk $30M on Milton Bradley to avoid trading away youth. Olson for Pie didn't do it for me but that was out of our hands apparently. Roberts for Floyd I was ok with but doesn't seem to have been real.

I don't know, I don't think it's unreasonable to wait for results before making judgements. I also think it makes more sense to judge AM based on the opportunities he's missed than just some arbitrary standard of "that's not enough new talent". Trades are zero-sum; one team's gain is another's loss, in terms of absolute talent, so it's not easy to slam-dunk a team and 'add talent' in a vacuum. The Tejada and Bedard deals were legitimate steals considering the aftermath; we won't see their likes again unless we trade Roberts and he crashes.

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There are very few missed opportunities I see when I look back. The Cubs offer may haunt us, Milledge seemed like a reasonable target, and I'm still hung up on Dayan Viciedo - 4 years and $11M doesn't seem unaffordable and he's supposed to be great. I don't understand why every team isn't in on players like that.

If I had one specific gripe it'd be that I can't believe we couldn't have matched Schneider and Church for Milledge with some kind of Ramon Hernandez offer, although Milledge has been pretty unspectacular so far.

I think Scott to the Cubs made too much sense to not happen but they seemed happier to risk $30M on Milton Bradley to avoid trading away youth. Olson for Pie didn't do it for me but that was out of our hands apparently. Roberts for Floyd I was ok with but doesn't seem to have been real.

I don't know, I don't think it's unreasonable to wait for results before making judgements. I also think it makes more sense to judge AM based on the opportunities he's missed than just some arbitrary standard of "that's not enough new talent". Trades are zero-sum; one team's gain is another's loss, in terms of absolute talent, so it's not easy to slam-dunk a team and 'add talent' in a vacuum. The Tejada and Bedard deals were legitimate steals considering the aftermath; we won't see their likes again unless we trade Roberts and he crashes.

But we have seen results and it has been almost a full calendar year since AM did anything to improve our depth and talent for the long term.

You are telling me that this idea doesn't matter to you?

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The question has been posed, what has Maphail done to improve the depth of this organization since the Bedard deal?

This is probably a trick question but here goes.

First we held an Amateur draft in June which was pretty successful in adding positional depth throughout the system and also added a top of the rotation starter.

It has been pointed out here that the Orioles spent more money in the "deeper" rounds then they have in years, suggesting a willingness to go above the slot to get quality talent.

Sixty percent of the top ten selections were for positional players, which addressed a critical organziational need. In general the entire draft reflected this bias.

Matusz P

Avery of

Hoes If

Miclat if

Hudson Of

Zagne SP

Joseph 1b, C

Bundy Sp

Haughian SP

Herrmann 3b

As far as other transactions that MacPhail has completed since the Bedard deal, I can only think of the Hernandez deal in which I thought we got more then was expected. I especially like Turner whoes minor league numbers show a lot of promise. We'll see how he does in the Eastern League this year.

Waring is raw but could be a bonus.

I did like the acquasition of Perez. Many think he is ready right now as a set up man/ closer. I like having him at AA as more bull pen depth.

I've certainly missed some things and I'm sure that it can be argued that Macphail could have doen more but I think he has made some productive moves.

The draft is all Jordan supposedly, not MacPhail. Take away the draft, because all teams draft players, and what exactly did he do during last season to improve the team long term?

The answer is jack squat...

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The draft is all Jordan supposedly, not MacPhail. Take away the draft, because all teams draft players, and what exactly did he do during last season to improve the team long term?

The answer is jack squat...

The GM is responsible for it all. But, with regrd to your point I've already answered it in my post.

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The GM is responsible for it all. But, with regrd to your point I've already answered it in my post.

You said he added Turner in the Hernandez deal, but that was this offseason. He wasted a whole season doing nothing to improve the team for the long term.

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The draft is all Jordan supposedly, not MacPhail. Take away the draft, because all teams draft players, and what exactly did he do during last season to improve the team long term?

The answer is jack squat...

Now wait a sec JTrea; you can't argue from such a vacumn. The draft IS part of the/a team's ability and effort to improve. Whether it is all Jordan or not, is also rather immaterial. Jordan is "the Orioles". MacPhail is "the Orioles". Its all the same difference as they say.

Now, if the debate continues as to "what, aside from the potential improvements achieved by the regular draft, has been done to improve the team?", so be it.

Edited by TinCup

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The draft is all Jordan supposedly, not MacPhail. Take away the draft, because all teams draft players, and what exactly did he do during last season to improve the team long term?

The answer is jack squat...

You've now, in separate conversations, removed both the Uehara signing ("it was all Stockstill") and the draft from MacPhail. In other words, you're saying that, even though AM has expressed that the FA market is not going to be his main source of talent, the only things you'll give him credit for are trades and FA acquisitions.

So, as far as trades go, when he arrived he had three commodities with any ML value (worth trading): Bedard, Tejada and Roberts.

He traded the first two, by all accounts, to the team's advantage.

He has yet to trade the third. But now you don't want to give him credit for Tejada and Bedard because they happened last year.

So, really, you've eliminated every one of the positives to focus on the negatives. There's not even the appearance of objectivity here. Quit framing the argument to fit your needs.

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