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Tejada is back and killing us again!

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ARod's move did effect his bat for awhile. Don't remember about Boggs. Ripken was an exceptionally gifted athlete in the first place who shouldn't have been as good defensively up the middle as he was in the first place.

But the one run is not just Tejada being off, it's the fall off from whoever gets plugged in at short as well. Plus, you're only accounting for RBI's. What about runs scored? I was saying .5+.5. for both variables though. You want to take Tejada out of that spot you have to account for both the offensive hit you take at SS, and the very real and strong possibility that Tejadas offense suffers for a period of time, if he ever truly recovers. You figure he would, but you can't really say for sure whether he'd take to the move well at all. He's a proud guy.

He may be a proud guy but he is a natural hitter. I just don't see that as much as an issue. Now if we were in a neck and neck pennant race I do agree it would be more of a worry. BTW, I love this thread!:):D

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You'd really consider him a natural hitter? He seems like a guy who doesn't have to try as hard as some, but it doesn't come completely naturally for, either.

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Wedge:

We have a good sample size on Tejada over the last year or two.

Were you referring to Hernandez's play as the small sample size? Regarding Hernandez, I didn't suggest that he should play SS regularly because I don't know much about him. I did assert that the O's defense could be improved dramatically by replacing Tejada by a great fielding SS.

If you want a good example of an outstanding fielder, think Mark Belanger. If Hernandez can field like Belanger, hit over .200, bunt with the best, and steal some bases (and I need more information to make an informed assessment about his fielding, hitting and base running), then I would prefer Hernandez over Tejada at SS. I would prefer Tejada when he hits with consistent power and, thereby, makes up for his many baseball difficiencies.

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Wedge:

We have a good sample size on Tejada over the last year or two.

Were you referring to Hernandez's play as the small sample size? Regarding Hernandez, I didn't suggest that he should play SS regularly because I don't know much about him. I did assert that the O's defense could be improved dramatically by replacing Tejada by a great fielding SS.

If you want a good example of an outstanding fielder, think Mark Belanger. If Hernandez can field like Belanger, hit over .200, bunt with the best, and steal some bases (and I need more information to make an informed assessment about his fielding, hitting and base running), then I would prefer Hernandez over Tejada at SS. I would prefer Tejada when he hits with consistent power and, thereby, makes up for his many baseball difficiencies.

I was referring to Hernandez, yes.

And believe me, I would never claim that Tejada was ever the defensive equivalent of The Blade. But he's not available. And for good or ill, Ripken altered the position enough to the point where you get guys like Garciaparra and Jeter playing a position they really shouldn't with their skill set. If you have a Tejada on the roster, you give up a tad of defense for his offense, and you have the flexibility to lose that offense from another position (though you shouldn't...see our team for that).

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You'd really consider him a natural hitter? He seems like a guy who doesn't have to try as hard as some, but it doesn't come completely naturally for, either.

In my estimation any player who has a lifetime average of 300 or better is a natural hitter. Tejada fits that category. I think he would be a great DH, LF or any position you want to play him because he can hit.

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In my estimation any player who has a lifetime average of 300 or better is a natural hitter. Tejada fits that category. I think he would be a great DH, LF or any position you want to play him because he can hit.

Eh, we see it totally different. I think someone could hit over 300 for his career and do it from being diligent and constantly working at it rather than natural skill at swinging.

I mean, look at Tony Gwynn. Yeah, I won't deny his natural ability, but he augmented it how many fold with his diligence and constant self evaluation.

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Eh, we see it totally different. I think someone could hit over 300 for his career and do it from being diligent and constantly working at it rather than natural skill at swinging.

I mean, look at Tony Gwynn. Yeah, I won't deny his natural ability, but he augmented it how many fold with his diligence and constant self evaluation.

I agree, but I think Gwynn definitely worked much harder at it than Tejada.

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I agree, but I think Gwynn definitely worked much harder at it than Tejada.

He was an extreme example, admittedly. He worked harder at it than anybody, except Ted Williams (still in awe of his "diagram" of the strike zone).

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He was an extreme example, admittedly. He worked harder at it than anybody, except Ted Williams (still in awe of his "diagram" of the strike zone).

Actually, Ted Williams had one of the greatest swings ever. I am not saying he didn't also work hard and analyze hitting with the best but he also had something like 20-10 vision, whereby his eyesight was so keen he could see the stitches on a 100 mph fastball! So he was a great "pure" hitter as well.

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Actually, Ted Williams had one of the greatest swings ever. I am not saying he didn't also work hard and analyze hitting with the best but he also had something like 20-10 vision, whereby his eyesight was so keen he could see the stitches on a 100 mph fastball! So he was a great "pure" hitter as well.

Wasn't trying to lump him in with that point. Simply comparing the diligence and self evaluation of Gwynn with Williams, regardless of Williams natural ability.

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I think the sun revolves around the earth and that the moon is made of Kraft American cheese slices.

I don't have any evidence to support either of these claims, but you have to respect my opinion. You can show me all the evidence you want, but that doesn't mean I'll interpret it the same way.

Right, and these are the mature responses I love. The ones that compare statistics that are relative based on playing conditions, ball parks, and in game scenarios- to a moon made of cheese. Yeah, you sold me on your case there buddy. Disagreeing about the value and ability of a player is quite different than something scientifically proven. Or wait, I forgot, there's a phythagorean theorem to tell us who is a good and bad baseball player. It's funny to me that you feel comments like this actually make a case for your own intellect.

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Well, as taboo as this is, I pretty much call BS. Because with proper offensive output, the very negligible (no matter how you really slice it) difference in defense between Tejada and a defensive whiz SS would be so less noticeable. In other words...a lot less one run games.

But right now, forcing Tejada out of position is a recipe for disaster. You've now only possibly made the defense at SS slightly better on the whole, and the SS position in the lineup is now a hole. You've transplanted Tejada out of his normal position, which has historically caused havoc with players offensive skills as they acclimate to their new position. Could he over come this? Maybe, but with his temperament, it's extremely doubtful. So you've screwed up two positions in the line up for let's say a .5 run difference on defense a game (and that's being generous). Of course, now the offense is scoring potentially 1 run less a game, minimum.

So, if you're very generous on the defense and very minimalist on the offense changes, that is a -.5 change.

Thats generally called a negative move.

Not to mention that it completely destroys Tejada's potential trade value in the offseason. He's a dime a dozen (worse actually) DH or elsewhere. He's an attractive SS.

I really didn't want to extend this thread- but I'm sorry- after 4 hours of work I come back and see a new 5 pages!! I just completely disagree with the assertion that moving Tejada from SS is gonna cause the "offense to score potentially 1 run less a game?" Tejada was out for more than a month- and while I'm not a numbers cruncher- I'm pretty sure our offense was NO WORSE with him on the bench. I surely don't think we are a run worse a game without him. Now THAT'S being extremely kind and overly respectful of Tejada.

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I really didn't want to extend this thread- but I'm sorry- after 4 hours of work I come back and see a new 5 pages!! I just completely disagree with the assertion that moving Tejada from SS is gonna cause the "offense to score potentially 1 run less a game?" Tejada was out for more than a month- and while I'm not a numbers cruncher- I'm pretty sure our offense was NO WORSE with him on the bench. I surely don't think we are a run worse a game without him. Now THAT'S being extremely kind and overly respectful of Tejada.

That's because (1) his replacements hit almost .300 for the month Tejada was out, and (2) players at other positions, notably Corey Patterson and Nick Markakis, got hot. That was fortunate, but frankly, fluky. Look at Gomez, Fahey and Hernandez's track record and you'll see that you'd be very lucky to get a .650 OPS out of the three of them over an extended period of time.

However, I have to agree with you on one point -- Tejada is not worth a run per game compared to a replacement, that is a gross exaggeration.

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Correct...

1 - Cal Ripken

2 - Hank Aaron

3 - Carl Yastrzemski

4 - Dave Winfield

5 - Eddie Murray

Anybody wanna rag on Ripken and Murray for their GIDP totals? :eek:

Umm, yes, I would. They grounded into too many DP's, it's not the end of the world, but it is one of those often ignored small stats that Bill James talks about. The difference between Ripken or Rice in DP's and Biggio is substantial in terms of runs created.

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