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Assuming he's done, grade MacPhail's offseason

Grade MacPhail's offseason (assuming he's done)  

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  1. 1. Grade MacPhail's offseason (assuming he's done)


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Well that's a tough grade to give if you can't really speak to anything tangible of credible he could/should have done that he didn't. He offered Tex over $20m a year as a starting offer, can't blame him if we were outbid either by geography or money. On the pitching front, there aren't any FA we wish we'd have signed that we didn't, and without knowing what other GM's are asking for to get their better pitching prospects in a trade, how can one really know?

Sorry to be critical back at you. But unfortunately I dont work in the front office. I am however very good at what I do. I meet & beat my goals that are handed down by my organization.

To simply say I would have traded for Sonnenstine from the Rays or got a deal done with the White Sox for Floyd is just absurd. I dont know the asking price & if the said players are available. I believe you'd be in the same boat.

The Orioles have plenty of minor league pitching depth. They have Scott & Roberts.... The Orioles have committed to Pie in LF everyday. So they have 2 or 3 quality chips at the major league level. Surely he could've gotten something done for somebody thats substantial for our rotation. Looper being added would upgrade my score. Adding the Cuban starter would as well.

He offered Tex a offer that he knew he would decline. Offering 7/140 when 3-4 other clubs were known to have higher/better offers. Really this is a no brainer.

Kind of like saying ..."Your looking for a job" Here are your scenarios

1 Company A offers you 100,000 per year (Angels)

2 Company B offers you 120,000 Per year (Nationals)

3 Company C offers you 150,000 per year (Yankees)

4 Company D offers you 90,000 per year (Orioles)

5 Company E offers you 105,00 per year (Boston)

Would you think company D really wanted your services???? I will BOO texiera until he retires because he's a Yankee. Do I blame him for not coming here? Hoe can I ? I dont believe McPhail's history says he prefers Type A free agents.

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I understand it but he better seriously consider some drastic ideas to improve/upgrade even bring up to major league par or average the future rotation of this team in years to come. Right now it is scary bad.:eek: Unlike you I have little faith in "projecting' any of these prospects in the pipeline to high level major league success. The Orioles historic transition from highly rated Triple A prospects to major league success seems to follow the pattern of the Garrett Olsons, Liz's and Penn's. Floundering pitching prospects at the Major League Level has become the modern "Oriole Way" sadly.:(

The Orioles have not had a group of minor league pitchers rated as highly as Tillman and Matusz since Mussina and McDonald were baby birds. For you to compare them to Penn,Olson and Liz demonstrates a surprising lack of insight for a long time fan of the game. When we raved about guys like Penn, the national observers hardly bothered mentioning them and never with the games best prospects. But, every scout that has watched Tillman and Matusz pitch is convinced they will produce at the major league level. Arrieta appears to be a step back in many of their eyes, but even he garners praise, even to the point of being the only A-ball pitcher named to Team USA for the Olympics.

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The Orioles have not had a group of minor league pitchers rated as highly as Tillman and Matusz since Mussina and McDonald were baby birds. For you to compare them to Penn,Olson and Liz demonstrates a surprising lack of insight for a long time fan of the game. When we raved about guys like Penn, the national observers hardly bothered mentioning them and never with the games best prospects. But, every scout that has watched Tillman and Matusz pitch is convinced they will produce at the major league level. Arrieta appears to be a step back in many of their eyes, but even he garners praise, even to the point of being the only A-ball pitcher named to Team USA for the Olympics.

Regardless of how highly guys like Tillman,Arrieta , & Matusz. None are ready to be here. Theres a good chance that only 1 of the 3 will be ready to start here in 2010 IMO. Even if all three were he the chances of them all being here & having success is very low. Adding a substantial starter to a 2-3 year deal would do little to block these guys & if nothing else would be giving us a surplus for later. AM already has stated he's not going to rush these guys & I believe him because his track record is to err on the side of caution. So by free agent or trade he should have found away to upgrade with guys that aren't low risk/high reward guys. Hill may rebound & he may not. Uehara may handle MLB & he may not. One things for sure ...If they do the Orioles bullpen will be decimated by the break. And we will be risking another Albers type injury. I really blame his injury on being overworked.

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Sorry to be critical back at you. But unfortunately I dont work in the front office. I am however very good at what I do. I meet & beat my goals that are handed down by my organization.

To simply say I would have traded for Sonnenstine from the Rays or got a deal done with the White Sox for Floyd is just absurd. I dont know the asking price & if the said players are available. I believe you'd be in the same boat.

The Orioles have plenty of minor league pitching depth. They have Scott & Roberts.... The Orioles have committed to Pie in LF everyday. So they have 2 or 3 quality chips at the major league level. Surely he could've gotten something done for somebody thats substantial for our rotation. Looper being added would upgrade my score. Adding the Cuban starter would as well.

He offered Tex a offer that he knew he would decline. Offering 7/140 when 3-4 other clubs were known to have higher/better offers. Really this is a no brainer.

Kind of like saying ..."Your looking for a job" Here are your scenarios

1 Company A offers you 100,000 per year (Angels)

2 Company B offers you 120,000 Per year (Nationals)

3 Company C offers you 150,000 per year (Yankees)

4 Company D offers you 90,000 per year (Orioles)

5 Company E offers you 105,00 per year (Boston)

Would you think company D really wanted your services???? I will BOO texiera until he retires because he's a Yankee. Do I blame him for not coming here? Hoe can I ? I dont believe McPhail's history says he prefers Type A free agents.

I would say fortunately. There is nothing that you say here that can be supported by fact. It's all conjecture. E.g. Do you know when the various offers were made to Tex, and can you assert with any certainty that the other teams involved knew the nature of the competing offers? You assume because you have read various accounts after the fact that these offers were known, but in fact most teams rarely know what other teams are offering.

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I would say fortunately. There is nothing that you say here that can be supported by fact. It's all conjecture. E.g. Do you know when the various offers were made to Tex, and can you assert with any certainty that the other teams involved knew the nature of the competing offers? You assume because you have read various accounts after the fact that these offers were known, but in fact most teams rarely know what other teams are offering.

I believe you are right about this. I was simply responding to the question this post

Originally Posted by Fan4Life

Well that's a tough grade to give if you can't really speak to anything tangible of credible he could/should have done that he didn't. He offered Tex over $20m a year as a starting offer, can't blame him if we were outbid either by geography or money. On the pitching front, there aren't any FA we wish we'd have signed that we didn't, and without knowing what other GM's are asking for to get their better pitching prospects in a trade, how can one really know?

How could any of us really know whats available & what the asking price is etc etc. All I do know about Tex is that our best tabled offer appeared to be much lower than the rumored offers of the Nats & the deal that he signed with the Yanks!

Thanks

Johnny

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I believe you are right about this. I was simply responding to the question this post

How could any of us really know whats available & what the asking price is etc etc. All I do know about Tex is that our best tabled offer appeared to be much lower than the rumored offers of the Nats & the deal that he signed with the Yanks!Thanks

Johnny

And praise the baseball lords for that! Andy had the wisdom and discipline to establish a price that, in his view, made sense, and then to hold fast at around that level. He might have budged a bit, of course, had Boras come back with a request for best and final offers -- but I suspect that any changes would have been minor on base dollars, perhaps with some option-year creativity tacked on. He wasn't about to act like a drunken sailor in getting caught up with the insane bidding war, in which the price that you establish in advance as the sensible threshold all of a sudden changes just because other bidders go way higher.

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And praise the baseball lords for that! Andy had the wisdom and discipline to establish a price that, in his view, made sense, and then to hold fast at around that level. He might have budged a bit, of course, had Boras come back with a request for best and final offers -- but I suspect that any changes would have been minor on base dollars, perhaps with some option-year creativity tacked on. He wasn't about to act like a drunken sailor in getting caught up with the insane bidding war, in which the price that you establish in advance as the sensible threshold all of a sudden changes just because other bidders go way higher.

Surely you understand that as long as he's the GM here the Orioles will never sign a grade A talent free agent. Basically because he will never pay top dollar.

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And praise the baseball lords for that! Andy had the wisdom and discipline to establish a price that, in his view, made sense, and then to hold fast at around that level. He might have budged a bit, of course, had Boras come back with a request for best and final offers -- but I suspect that any changes would have been minor on base dollars, perhaps with some option-year creativity tacked on. He wasn't about to act like a drunken sailor in getting caught up with the insane bidding war, in which the price that you establish in advance as the sensible threshold all of a sudden changes just because other bidders go way higher.
Just speculation on my part, but when Boras and Tex met with PA before the Ravens game in Balto, I think they may have gotten the same song and dance that Boston got in Texas. After that the O's pretty much knew where things stood, and didn't feel it necessary to waste their time upping their offer.

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Regardless of how highly guys like Tillman,Arrieta , & Matusz. None are ready to be here. Theres a good chance that only 1 of the 3 will be ready to start here in 2010 IMO. Even if all three were he the chances of them all being here & having success is very low. Adding a substantial starter to a 2-3 year deal would do little to block these guys & if nothing else would be giving us a surplus for later. AM already has stated he's not going to rush these guys & I believe him because his track record is to err on the side of caution. So by free agent or trade he should have found away to upgrade with guys that aren't low risk/high reward guys. Hill may rebound & he may not. Uehara may handle MLB & he may not. One things for sure ...If they do the Orioles bullpen will be decimated by the break. And we will be risking another Albers type injury. I really blame his injury on being overworked.

Props to you and this post as it is one of the most refreshingly realistic and accurate posts I have read here in a long, long time!:clap3:

I just think his attempts at establishing a starting rotation have been inadequate at best and inexcusably bad at worst. Instead of instilling a winning culture the opposite seems to be occurring here simply because of the neglect of the rotation.

One thing for sure and AM has to know it is so and that is lack of a starting rotation will simply kill any bullpen no matter how talented. Both their arms and their spirit! Too many wishfully optimistic sorts here seem to totally overlook this stark reality!

Edited by Old#5fan

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Surely you understand that as long as he's the GM here the Orioles will never sign a grade A talent free agent. Basically because he will never pay top dollar.
1. There is zero basis for this conclusion. "Timing, timing, timing" is every bit as apt for the situation here as it always has been "location, location, location" in the real estate market (at least until credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations came along :D). All we know is that Andy set this price at this time for this player. We also know that he signed Soriano to a pretty rich contract at a time when the Cubs were at a VERY different point in the success cycle. So this is just emotional babble you're spewing.

2. Even if your statement is correct, it's interesting that you appear to believe that the central objective in this baseball side of life that we lead is to sign grade A talent free agent. I always THOUGHT that the objective is to build a franchise that can compete at the highest levels on a continuing basis for a very extended stretch of time, hopefully with consistent playoff appearances throughout much of that stretch and a few World Series championships along the way. This apparent linkage that you have in your brain that the only way to achieve the latter is by putting primary emphasis on the former is an opinion and not a fact. My opinion is not only different, but virtually diametrically opposite.

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Just speculation on my part, but when Boras and Tex met with PA before the Ravens game in Balto, I think they may have gotten the same song and dance that Boston got in Texas. After that the O's pretty much knew where things stood, and didn't feel it necessary to waste their time upping their offer.
And as ultimately became apparent, Andy put that freed-up time to incredibly productive use for the balance of the off-season.

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All I do know about Tex is that our best tabled offer appeared to be much lower than the rumored offers of the Nats & the deal that he signed with the Yanks!

Boras got what Tex wanted... no matter what the Orioles, Nationals or Angels offered.

Jayson Stark

Two different baseball men have told us in the past week that Angels owner Arte Moreno is "furious" about the way Scott Boras treated his team during the Mark Teixeira negotiations.

"Arte is ticked at Boras, and he's ticked at Teixeira," said one source. "They made one offer, and they never got a chance to make another. They were led to believe by Teixeira that he was really interested in being back there. But after they made their offer, they literally got no response. So they feel like they were lied to."

By the time the Angels knew Teixeira was signing elsewhere, it was already late December, and their Plan B (Sabathia) was also off the board. So they've wound up going through the winter without making a single addition to either their lineup or their rotation. Not quite what anybody envisioned when this offseason began.

But when we asked Angels GM Tony Reagins about these rumors, he replied, carefully: "We were disappointed we didn't get the player. We thought we made a fair offer, but we didn't get the player. Were we disappointed? Yes. But then we moved on."

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Bottom line is we weren't aggressive enough for Tex and we didn't present im with our best offer.

Those 2 things are pretty much indisputable.

Now, had we put similar money out there copared to NY and been much more aggressive, does that mean we would have gotten him? Not at all but that doesn't mean things couldn't have been handled better than they were.

I think way too many of you are falling into the trap of listening to what Tex has said about wanting to go to NY and actually believing it.

He wanted to go to the team that would pay him the most money...He would have said the same thing had he signed with Boston, DC or Baltimore.

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Sorry to be critical back at you. But unfortunately I dont work in the front office. I am however very good at what I do. I meet & beat my goals that are handed down by my organization.

To simply say I would have traded for Sonnenstine from the Rays or got a deal done with the White Sox for Floyd is just absurd. I dont know the asking price & if the said players are available. I believe you'd be in the same boat.

The Orioles have plenty of minor league pitching depth. They have Scott & Roberts.... The Orioles have committed to Pie in LF everyday. So they have 2 or 3 quality chips at the major league level. Surely he could've gotten something done for somebody thats substantial for our rotation. Looper being added would upgrade my score. Adding the Cuban starter would as well.

.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I was just hoping you could povide something more than that as to how you came to give AM such a low grade. I'm not completely satisfied with where we are either, but I'm not sure all of that on AM. I think you can make a case that there were some opportunities we didn't take advantage of with trading for Scott Olsen instead of signing Hendrickson being one of them. Are those situations enough to take AM to a grade D? Not for me. We're still positioned to use the players you outlined to improve the club. The game isn't over yet.

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Bottom line is we weren't aggressive enough for Tex and we didn't present im with our best offer.

Those 2 things are pretty much indisputable.

Now, had we put similar money out there copared to NY and been much more aggressive, does that mean we would have gotten him? Not at all but that doesn't mean things couldn't have been handled better than they were.

I think way too many of you are falling into the trap of listening to what Tex has said about wanting to go to NY and actually believing it.

He wanted to go to the team that would pay him the most money...He would have said the same thing had he signed with Boston, DC or Baltimore.

Recently you made a comment that perhaps the original offer put out there was reasonable and the fact we didn't go further is on Angelos, not AM. This comment seems to reflect you think AM handled it poorly afterall.

Also, how can you say too many fell into the trap of Tex saying he'd always wanted to play for NY, yet you were the one constantly quoting Tex wanting to play for us as to why he would be in Baltimore?

And one more for the road.... your comment about Tex only wanted to go to whoever offered the most money... didn't the Nats have more money on the table? And even if you presume they didn't, wouldn't you take the Yankee's offer back to the other 3 clubs if the money was the primary factor?

Edited by Fan4Life

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