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Assuming he's done, grade MacPhail's offseason

Grade MacPhail's offseason (assuming he's done)  

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  1. 1. Grade MacPhail's offseason (assuming he's done)



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Bottom line is we weren't aggressive enough for Tex and we didn't present im with our best offer.

Those 2 things are pretty much indisputable.

Now, had we put similar money out there copared to NY and been much more aggressive, does that mean we would have gotten him? Not at all but that doesn't mean things couldn't have been handled better than they were.

I think way too many of you are falling into the trap of listening to what Tex has said about wanting to go to NY and actually believing it.

He wanted to go to the team that would pay him the most money...He would have said the same thing had he signed with Boston, DC or Baltimore.

Recently you made a comment that perhaps the original offer put out there was reasonable and the fact we didn't go further is on Angelos, not AM. This comment seems to reflect you think AM handled it poorly afterall.

Also, how can you say too many fell into the trap of Tex saying he'd always wanted to play for NY, yet you were the one constantly quoting Tex wanting to play for us as to why he would be in Baltimore?

And one more for the road.... your comment about Tex only wanted to go to whoever offered the most money... didn't the Nats have more money on the table? And even if you presume they didn't, wouldn't you take the Yankee's offer back to the other 3 clubs if the money was the primary factor?

Edited by Fan4Life

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Lots of new interesting players to watch this year. Most of the boring players are gone, including Cabrera and Hernandez. When the O's lose, it will be in a different way this year. The defense should be outstanding. Two of the promisng young pitchers should be on the roster before the season ends and, perhaps with a strong Spring, Matusz will be up in May.

The 2009 season will be fun to watch. Even though the O's team doesn't have much of a chance to win the AL East, most individual games will be competitive. What more could I reasonably expect from the O's GM?

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1. There is zero basis for this conclusion. "Timing, timing, timing" is every bit as apt for the situation here as it always has been "location, location, location" in the real estate market (at least until credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations came along :D). All we know is that Andy set this price at this time for this player. We also know that he signed Soriano to a pretty rich contract at a time when the Cubs were at a VERY different point in the success cycle. So this is just emotional babble you're spewing.2. Even if your statement is correct, it's interesting that you appear to believe that the central objective in this baseball side of life that we lead is to sign grade A talent free agent. I always THOUGHT that the objective is to build a franchise that can compete at the highest levels on a continuing basis for a very extended stretch of time, hopefully with consistent playoff appearances throughout much of that stretch and a few World Series championships along the way. This apparent linkage that you have in your brain that the only way to achieve the latter is by putting primary emphasis on the former is an opinion and not a fact. My opinion is not only different, but virtually diametrically opposite.

I dont know how you get the Zero basis Idea. I think Mcphails track record suggests he doesn't sign big name player to top dollar contracts. I not suggesting he hasn't stepped up to resign his own guys. Name one other prominent name/contract during his long history as a gm. I not saying he wont ever ...I'm saying he very very rarely does. I am anything but emotional about the Orioles at this point. I borderline wont care until Angelos sells the team.

Edited by Roll Tide

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I would be very happy if the Orioles could simply avoid being completely awful for the last two months of the season, for once. Which is another way of saying that I hope that in 2009 the pitching gets stronger, rather than weaker, as the season grinds on. If that happens, that would go a long way towards declaring the year a success.

My other hope is that Markakis takes a step up in 2009...I'd like to see a bit more power from him, or a higher average with the same power. I don't know if he can do that for a full season, but I'd love to see it.

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Props to you and this post as it is one of the most refreshingly realistic and accurate posts I have read here in a long, long time!:clap3:

I just think his attempts at establishing a starting rotation have been inadequate at best and inexcusably bad at worst. Instead of instilling a winning culture the opposite seems to be occurring here simply because of the neglect of the rotation.

One thing for sure and AM has to know it is so and that is lack of a starting rotation will simply kill any bullpen no matter how talented. Both their arms and their spirit! Too many wishfully optimistic sorts here seem to totally overlook this stark reality!

Thanks #5 .... I'm just not drinking the Koolaid anymore. Many of the younger fans here continue to be optimistic. All I know is the Yankees,Red Sox & Rays are all better teams than they were when the season ended. The Orioles have modestly improved ..So basically teams that were already better improved more than we did. Not a good recipe for the Orioles. The Orioles have added a lot of long shots .... Hill,Pie, Pauley come to mind & some question marks Uehara (as you cant be sure of his success.

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I gave him a B+. I would have given him an A if he did more to address the future infield of the team - but there's still time to do that - and I'm confident that he will.

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1. There is zero basis for this conclusion. "Timing, timing, timing" is every bit as apt for the situation here as it always has been "location, location, location" in the real estate market (at least until credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations came along :D). All we know is that Andy set this price at this time for this player. We also know that he signed Soriano to a pretty rich contract at a time when the Cubs were at a VERY different point in the success cycle. So this is just emotional babble you're spewing.

2. Even if your statement is correct, it's interesting that you appear to believe that the central objective in this baseball side of life that we lead is to sign grade A talent free agent. I always THOUGHT that the objective is to build a franchise that can compete at the highest levels on a continuing basis for a very extended stretch of time, hopefully with consistent playoff appearances throughout much of that stretch and a few World Series championships along the way. This apparent linkage that you have in your brain that the only way to achieve the latter is by putting primary emphasis on the former is an opinion and not a fact. My opinion is not only different, but virtually diametrically opposite.

After reading this post again. I want to also point out that you mention central objective as signing free agents (Type A & Winning). The Orioles have for a long time signed 2nd & 3rd tier guys. In case your not sure the ones i'm talikg about here's a list (Millar,Payton, Bradford,Walker,Baez, Wiggington, Uehara) I could go back further if you'd like?

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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I was just hoping you could povide something more than that as to how you came to give AM such a low grade. I'm not completely satisfied with where we are either, but I'm not sure all of that on AM. I think you can make a case that there were some opportunities we didn't take advantage of with trading for Scott Olsen instead of signing Hendrickson being one of them. Are those situations enough to take AM to a grade D? Not for me. We're still positioned to use the players you outlined to improve the club. The game isn't over yet.

I dont believe Mcphail did much to upgrade the rotation. It had to be the biggest off season priority. I'd be ok with Uehara if he had been added to be the #5 not the #2. Same thing with Hill, Pauley & the other guys with high 5 or 6 era's.

Really heres what I see

#1 Starter (The Orioles dont have one)

#2 Starter (Guthrie)

#3 Starter (The Orioles dont have one)

#4 Stater (The Orioles dont have one

#5 Starter one of Uehara,Pauley,Penn,Hendrickson etc etc etc

The fact that we really only have one major league proven pitcher (Guts) is absurd when you consider it was the downfall of last years team.

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I dont believe Mcphail did much to upgrade the rotation. It had to be the biggest off season priority. I'd be ok with Uehara if he had been added to be the #5 not the #2. Same thing with Hill, Pauley & the other guys with high 5 or 6 era's.

Really heres what I see

#1 Starter (The Orioles dont have one)

#2 Starter (Guthrie)

#3 Starter (The Orioles dont have one)

#4 Stater (The Orioles dont have one

#5 Starter one of Uehara,Pauley,Penn,Hendrickson etc etc etc

The fact that we really only have one major league proven pitcher (Guts) is absurd when you consider it was the downfall of last years team.

I agree with all of this 100%. From the end of last season I had been proclaiming we needed to add 3 starters, we haven't. What FA pitchers should we have gone after? We made an effort at Burnett, he was to expensive. I don't know of many more on the FA side I would have been excited about. As far as trades, hard to speculate what we could get and who we'd have to give up. I agree we've signed several "what if" players and that 2009 will be another losing year unless half of them step up.

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Looks as though 5 people actually think this team has gotten worse since last season "C or worse (which translates to D) or "F"...which is completely baffling logic! Eh, to each their own.

While AM didn't (IMO), make any dramatic head turning moves this off season, I believe he has done enough to improve this team as a whole and begin to build a solid foundation within the organization. There is just no way this team is in a worse situation entering 2009 than we were in 2008.

I'm guessing the D's and F's are people who were looking for us to sign all the players the Yanks signed? Heck, even JTrea gave the man a B fellas...lighten up a little. AM is doing a fine job. Is he making all of the right moves...no. Are there any GM's that are making all the right moves...no! Someone might argue Bean, Cashman, Epstein, eh whatever...not even all the moves they make pan out the way they wish, no GM pulls all the right strings...sorry to disappoint you.

I have a feeling if we had some "higher power" were in the front office making all the moves for this team, then some people would still argue he could have done better. Just go do the job yourself if you think AM is such a failure.

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I agree with all of this 100%. From the end of last season I had been proclaiming we needed to add 3 starters, we haven't. What FA pitchers should we have gone after? We made an effort at Burnett, he was to expensive. I don't know of many more on the FA side I would have been excited about. As far as trades, hard to speculate what we could get and who we'd have to give up. I agree we've signed several "what if" players and that 2009 will be another losing year unless half of them step up.

Looper certainly would fill the #4 slot. I think the Cuban starter would do the same thing. The asain pitcher that the Red Sox signed could have worked in the two or three holes. Really whats too expensive. I know the Yankees have unlimited funds but the Orioles & their owner are far from poverty level.

Personally I think AM should/should've traded Scott & Roberts before now. He has minor league pitching depth other than the big three.

I wouldn't minde seeing us get Bailey #3 (Cin),Marshall #4, Sonnenstine or the available starter on the Rays #3 or#4, Floyd (I assume #3). Peavy (#1) I know all the Peavy stuff but maybe he would ahve taken a extension if we traded for him to waive his NTC. Anyway we had a number of possibilties no matter how remote.

Basically there were plenty of options

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Looks as though 5 people actually think this team has gotten worse since last season "C or worse (which translates to D) or "F"...which is completely baffling logic! Eh, to each their own.

While AM didn't (IMO), make any dramatic head turning moves this off season, I believe he has done enough to improve this team as a whole and begin to build a solid foundation within the organization. There is just no way this team is in a worse situation entering 2009 than we were in 2008.

I'm guessing the D's and F's are people who were looking for us to sign all the players the Yanks signed? Heck, even JTrea gave the man a B fellas...lighten up a little. AM is doing a fine job. Is he making all of the right moves...no. Are there any GM's that are making all the right moves...no! Someone might argue Bean, Cashman, Epstein, eh whatever...not even all the moves they make pan out the way they wish, no GM pulls all the right strings...sorry to disappoint you.

I have a feeling if we had some "higher power" were in the front office making all the moves for this team, then some people would still argue he could have done better. Just go do the job yourself if you think AM is such a failure.

I classify a C as staying about the same. I dont see much guaranteed improvement in the rotation.

Isturis is a upgrade at SS ... Pie & Hill are big ???????? We removed Olson & his 6+ era & replaced him with a bunch of other guys that will likely have High

5 to 6.5 era's.

The Rotation could actually be worse. If Hill turns out to be a flop & Uehara doesn't convert well the rotation IS actually worse.

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Bottom line is we weren't aggressive enough for Tex and we didn't present im with our best offer.

Those 2 things are pretty much indisputable.

Now, had we put similar money out there copared to NY and been much more aggressive, does that mean we would have gotten him? Not at all but that doesn't mean things couldn't have been handled better than they were.

I think way too many of you are falling into the trap of listening to what Tex has said about wanting to go to NY and actually believing it.

He wanted to go to the team that would pay him the most money...He would have said the same thing had he signed with Boston, DC or Baltimore.

I can recall posts of yours where you were adamant that Tex wanted to play for B'more, the whole hiometown thing. So now you are saying he was essentially a liar all a long and basically was just about the money? If the latter is true, and I believe it is, then the only way to sign Tex was to offer him 10/210+. I suppose you believe this would have been prudent for the O's to have done?

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I can recall posts of yours where you were adamant that Tex wanted to play for B'more, the whole hiometown thing. So now you are saying he was essentially a liar all a long and basically was just about the money? If the latter is true, and I believe it is, then the only way to sign Tex was to offer him 10/210+. I suppose you believe this would have been prudent for the O's to have done?

I believe that we were certainly a option. I dont believe we deserved or should of expected a hometown discount.

Really the Orioles obviously half-A-S-Sed the whole thing. The problem is I dont understand why. I would have respected them for saying they really weren't interested in Tex at this point because of the many other holes left to address. But if they really were interested in him their reported bid was on the low end. Meaning we virtually had no shot.

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I was all about the blow it up thing from the start, and I think AM has done a masterful job of blowing it up in a smart and careful way. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen Mora dealt, but I just don't think that was ever a possibility. He stated up front that he was interested in aquiring young high upside players and amassing a large pool of young and talented arms. I really can't fault his plan, and I think he has done a great job of accomplishing what he set out to do. Jones, Pie and Markakis represent one of the most athletic young OF's in all of baseball. Weiters is a young Catcher with a ceiling in the stratosphere. Matuzs, Arrietta, Tillman, Patton, Albers, Penn....Our depth of quality arms in the wings is unbelievable. I really believe. This guy has renewed my faith in the organization, and I really think the O's are on there way.

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