Jump to content
bryanman8

Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003

Recommended Posts

I'm actually glad this info has come out, and not because I dislike Arod, I don't, but because I want people to stop being in denial about steroids in baseball.

Great comment!

It helps that this involves a player who had already lost my respect, but we should not conclude that all those who used steroids were scum. I drank before I was legally allowed, and I've done a few other things over the course of my 62 years of which I'm not too proud, but that doesn't necessarily make me a bad person. I didn't do marijuana because it wasn't available in my rural high school when I was growing up; that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have tried it if it had been readily available.

There were undoubtedly some other icons of the game who experimented with steroids. Bob Gibson has said that he would have used steroids if they'd been available to him. The majority of baseball players are people who have been driven all their lives to compete, and a lot of them undoubtedly stepped over the line on occasion. It's a lot easier if you believe, as Tom House has stated, that "six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs.

"We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed," he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them."

There are still a lot of people who don't think steroids were nearly as widespread as they obviously were, stories like this may change perceptions out there.

Maybe, but USA Today published House's statements in 2005 about steroid usage back in the sixties and seventies, yet you still have a lot of people who refer to the "steroid era" as beginning with the nineties. You also have a lot of people who believe that Bonds and McGwire didn't use steroids until they made their home run record pushes. If Canseco is credible, McGwire began using steroids as much as a decade before that. All we know about Bonds is that BALCO put him on a particularly effective steroids regimen which they had developed for Olympic athletes -- it doesn't prove that Bonds was clean before he hooked up with BALCO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great comment!

It helps that this involves a player who had already lost my respect, but we should not conclude that all those who used steroids were scum. I drank before I was legally allowed, and I've done a few other things over the course of my 62 years of which I'm not too proud, but that doesn't necessarily make me a bad person. I didn't do marijuana because it wasn't available in my rural high school when I was growing up; that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have tried it if it had been readily available.

There were undoubtedly some other icons of the game who experimented with steroids. Bob Gibson has said that he would have used steroids if they'd been available to him. The majority of baseball players are people who have been driven all their lives to compete, and a lot of them undoubtedly stepped over the line on occasion. It's a lot easier if you believe, as Tom House has stated, that "six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs.

"We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed," he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them."

Maybe, but USA Today published House's statements in 2005 about steroid usage back in the sixties and seventies, yet you still have a lot of people who refer to the "steroid era" as beginning with the nineties. You also have a lot of people who believe that Bonds and McGwire didn't use steroids until they made their home run record pushes. If Canseco is credible, McGwire began using steroids as much as a decade before that. All we know about Bonds is that BALCO put him on a particularly effective steroids regimen which they had developed for Olympic athletes -- it doesn't prove that Bonds was clean before he hooked up with BALCO.

First of all, thanks.

House's comments are part of the reason why I said the previous HR king may not have been clean, and that steroids were used in baseball before the 90's. For some reason, most people along with the media(maybe explains the reason), don't care or know about those comments.

Concerning your statement about Bonds, I agree that it's certainly possible that Bonds had used before BALCO, however I tend to believe the story about him becoming jealous of McGwire and Sosa, who in his opinion were using, so he decided to start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob Neyer mentions

Maybe the cheaters were wrong; that's the direction in which I lean, probably because I've got a streak of the moralist in me. But I will not sit idly while great athletes looking for an edge -- not all that different from the many generations before them -- are demonized by the high priests of baseball opinion. I will not.

I appreciate his comment more after reading Before You Begin to Froth, a recent blog on the subject which notes the complicit and encouraging environment created by the owners, the Player's Association and to a degree, the blog wonders also if the agents were complicit. The author notes:

Here is where Fehr and Orza blew it—what they failed to understand (or simply ignored) is that by trying to keep an environment where players could use performance-enhancing drugs without concern of sanction, they were doing ownership a huge favor. Steroid-fueled performance was incredibly profitable and ownership didn’t want the gravy train to end. Players were risking their health by taking substances that possibly came from dubious sources and manufactured in unsanitary and unhygienic conditions.

Management didn’t care; player turnover is a fact of life in baseball. Somebody is always available to take the spot of somebody not performing should someone become injured due to steroid usage. They found an indirect ally in the MLBPA; higher profits translated into higher salaries and the interests of the salary bar were being served. Citing privacy issues, Fehr and Orza long resisted drug testing. This suited ownership just fine and it finally took government action to get both to deal with the issue in a substantive way.

...and let's not forget the fans who came back to baseball in droves during the Sammy/McGuire race. I was one of them.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the testing regime is in any way effective I think it will be fascinating to see how many fewer players age as well as guys over the past 5-10 years have. Some of the contracts handed out with big money given to players into their mid and late 30s could become real disasters for their teams if testing for steroids takes away the chemicaly enhanced extended prime.

I do think usage was more widespread than just a handful of players and I do think we will see a noticeable effect with players careers ending earlier than they have in recent years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the testing regime is in any way effective I think it will be fascinating to see how many fewer players age as well as guys over the past 5-10 years have. Some of the contracts handed out with big money given to players into their mid and late 30s could become real disasters for their teams if testing for steroids takes away the chemicaly enhanced extended prime.

I do think usage was more widespread than just a handful of players and I do think we will see a noticeable effect with players careers ending earlier than they have in recent years.

The testing can easily be beat, it's just a matter of the players risking being found out about in a different way, or a few years down the line when the testing catches up to what they had used. The latter is only a problem for the player if the testing program does go back years to test past samples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The testing can easily be beat, it's just a matter of the players risking being found out about in a different way, or a few years down the line when the testing catches up to what they had used. The latter is only a problem for the player if the testing program does go back years to test past samples.

It should, and MLB should pour resources into continually improving the testing regime so that we never get to the point where players can be relatively certain that they have masks or other ways to beat the system. Take fines levied against players caught cheating and give them to researchers to try and find even better ways to detect cheating.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It should, and MLB should pour resources into continually improving the testing regime so that we never get to the point where players can be relatively certain that they have masks or other ways to beat the system.

The top notch drugs are almost always ahead of the testing, not much can be done to stop that imo. The testing of older samples is the best way to counter it imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The top notch drugs are almost always ahead of the testing, not much can be done to stop that imo. The testing of older samples is the best way to counter it imo.

I agree with both statements but I don't think the first one always has to be true. I think top notch drugs are ahead because there is a lot more money to made creating new drugs than there is revolutionizing the testing process. If creating tests that could accurately detect cheating was as or more profitable as creating drugs to enable cheating we might have a lot more innovation in the detection arena.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That Texas team was "Roid Central. Who was the ROY from that team?

They didn't get one. They had Mench get votes in 2002, and then a certain someone who is now Rodriguez's teammate again got votes in '03...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That Texas team was "Roid Central. Who was the ROY from that team?
Weams, you just cued the Twillight Zone sound in my head.

A 2003 Ranger clubhouse with feared sluggers the likes of Juan Gonzalez, Ruben Sierra, Raffy and A-Rod? A pox on all of them if they influenced a promising young player who shall forever remain nameless on these boards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great interview with Doug Glanville who talks about how ballplayers are flawed people who, feeling that young kid at their back after their jobs, insecurely fear having nothing after their short careers in The Show .

These are real people, regardless of how we might feel about cheating, and recognizing that they are otherwise imperfect people should put the controversy in a human context.

listen here

(and wow does Glanville sound like a smart guy)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great interview with Doug Glanville who talks about how ballplayers are flawed people who, feeling that young kid at their back after their jobs, insecurely fear having nothing after their short careers in The Show .

These are real people, regardless of how we might feel about cheating, and recognizing that they are otherwise imperfect people should put the controversy in a human context.

listen here

(and wow does Glanville sound like a smart guy)

He's an Ivy League graduate (Penn).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores

News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats







×
×
  • Create New...