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MemorialStadKid

10 completely overrated TV shows

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What's truly obvious here is that you didn't take the time read and absorb what I was saying and you are the one playing the game of "since he doesn't like it, it means that he must have no taste since my tastes are the barometer of cultural significance."

Let's counter your attack:

a) I do care about issues of sexuality and the freedom for people to live the life they want. On a political level, I care a great deal and since you don't know me, its not a good idea to make assumptions about a person's political leanings. I mean, that's just not smart.

b) I don't hate NYC, I lived there for 6 years. [1] I didn't like the fantastically white bread NYC portrayed in the show FRIENDS. That was my issue truly.

c) I was kidding about the English majors thing, but let me be clear, when I was an undergrad, the only people who liked KITH were the [2] pretentious lit majors who had their noses high in the air all the time. KITH was "smarter" than SNL and "superior" to IN LIVING COLOR. I hated those snootballs, and I didn't like the show, gay cast or not. And since I moved to LA, [3] you might be surprised how many stars are actually gay and I don't have a problem with them.

d) If you like KITH and FOTC, go for it. I didn't say anything about YOU personally unless [4]you see yourself as a pretentious British Mod dressing, fake Hipster trust fund kid who looks for "alternative" stuff for the sake of appearing culturally picky.

e) I should have used the phrase cinematically ignorant or "people ignorant of cinema/pop culture history" because THE SOPRANOS was very derivative of hundreds of past gangster stories. The main difference was that they concentrated on the family even more than the Godfather and the capers of Tony and his gang were drawn out with more intrigue and violence than Goodfellas because it was on cable TV. Sorry, I went to film school and when I watch a lot of stuff, I see every little thing it stole from a previous film or TV series. [5]It doesn't make me wrong to say that those who might appreciate that show may not have a deeper knowledge of pop culture and therefore enjoy the show in a vacuum.

f) [6]I critiqued those shows on the merits I saw. I was wrong about L&O, but I still believe it is repetitive and overrated. If you don't like it, tough.

MSK

1. If you lived in New York, you'd realize that social circles are, in fact, often somewhat homogenous. What you're saying is, then, that you'd prefer an artificially heterogenous version for television. In other words, fake it up to match your preferences. By the way, I'm not a fan of Friends.

2. Who are these "pretentious English majors with their noses high up in the air all the time" anyway? Did you somehow make it to film school, but never get a lesson that relying on stock and stereotypical characters is a sure way to weave an unconvincing narrative?

3. Lucky them! I'm sure they're relieved that a Hollywood powerbroker like yourself doesn't "have a problem" with their lifestyle.

4. They're not British. And they're self-lampooning. The show is definitely hit-or-miss. But it has a miniscule following from folks who like the deeply ironic, mostly clever, brand of humor. It's a small show by nature. This is a blatant example of you hating shows by the fans you imagine they have. It appears you've never even watched it. By the way, if I had a trust fund, would that make my insight less valuable? If so, why?

5. Or perhaps they have a deep and abiding love of American culture, and see The Sopranos for what it is, a riff on American culture, with one foot in New Jersey and the other in a long line of mob-based cultural artifacts. Whether or not you're a fan of post-modern tapestries made from fragments and figments of other stories, if you went to film school you should at least recognize that drawing on a number of sources, and appreciating movies or books that do, isn't about being "artistically illiterate" but rather a (sometimes self-defeating) kind of hyperliteracy.

6. Your "merits" aren't even merits. For instance:

You "didn't love" Raymond. (Where's the discussion on the merits?)

CSI is "scientifically impossible"? The show itself? I'm pretty sure the technology that brings it to our screens is quite possible. The science on the show? Sure, some of it is. But why is this a problem? The science on all sorts of movies or shows is "impossible" (for now). Obviously, the issue is the intersection of fact and fantasy for you. But you don't go into it. Why not?

FOTC is problematic because it looks like it was shot in a rooftop and the guys where T-Shirts and wool caps? That's not exactly a merit-based criticism. Unless we're reducing "meritocracy" to who's wearing clothes you approve.

KITH "just wasn't funny". You spend 75% of the critique caught up in gay guys in dresses, but all you can muster is "just wasn't funny"? That's your "merit-based criticism"? Try again, please.

Finally, Cheers: you argue that it's over-rated because no one watched it before Cosby was its lead-in. Is that a merits-based criticism? If the Nielsen ratings are, in fact, the definition of "merit" then you need to reassess what shows you diss (Raymond, Idol) and what shows you think worthy (The Wire, Homicide). By the way, what is "the potency" of a script? And should a comedy really strive for potency? And, finally, what does it matter if it wouldn't play today? How are those related to its merits? How in the world are you defining "merits"?

The fact is, you come off as more of an elitist - though of a passive aggressive and therefore more disingenuous sort - than a hundred undergrad English majors. Can't blame them for not talking to you.

Edited by Lucky Jim
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The fact is, you're more of a pompous windbag - though of a passive aggressive and therefore more disingenuous sort - than a hundred undergrad English majors. Can't blame them for not talking to you.

Lord almighty, your imaginary girlfriend must have spurned you again eh?

Dude, you're clearly taking this waaaaay too far and we could go in circles all night with this, and I am willing if you are, but maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air. Sitting in front of a computer all day isn't good for you man.

MSK

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Lord almighty, your imaginary girlfriend must have spurned you again eh?

Dude, you're clearly taking this waaaaay too far and we could go in circles all night with this, and I am willing if you are, but maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air. Sitting in front of a computer all day isn't good for you man.

MSK

Hardly. I just have no tolerance for judgmental b-s. Especially when it involves a value-judgment of an entire audience. And I don't even watch the bulk of the shows you list.

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God, BOTH of you shut up!

MSK, you are in the wrong here. You complain about the attitude of the "snobs" you have met over time, yet you then break out the "I went to film school" to justify your opinions? How are the two any different?

LJ, you are in the wrong here. The "no taste" and "pompous windbag" and "judgmental B.S." comments were uncalled-for.

Cripes. You two should at least disagree using logic and civility! :P

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I loved the Sopranos and also loved many of those movies you listed, along with a few mob movies you didn't list. The Sopranos had the time to develop characters much more along with get into the plot than any movies.

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God, BOTH of you shut up!

MSK, you are in the wrong here. You complain about the attitude of the "snobs" you have met over time, yet you then break out the "I went to film school" to justify your opinions? How are the two any different?

LJ, you are in the wrong here. The "no taste" and "pompous windbag" and "judgmental B.S." comments were uncalled-for.

Cripes. You two should at least disagree using logic and civility! :P

I'll readily admit that I shouldn't use "pompous windbag." I'll edit that out. "Judgmental b.s."? Well, that's 100% spot-on.

There's a reactionary anti-elitism on display in each of those posts that's as narrow-minded as anything he criticizes.

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God, BOTH of you shut up!

MSK, you are in the wrong here. You complain about the attitude of the "snobs" you have met over time, yet you then break out the "I went to film school" to justify your opinions? How are the two any different?

LJ, you are in the wrong here. The "no taste" and "pompous windbag" and "judgmental B.S." comments were uncalled-for.

Cripes. You two should at least disagree using logic and civility! :P

I have only one response to you:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOcbnihO9A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOcbnihO9A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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I have only one response to you:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOcbnihO9A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZOcbnihO9A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

They completely ripped off "The Brady Bunch" and "The Monkees"...;)

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They completely ripped off "The Brady Bunch" and "The Monkees"...;)

Speaking of rip offs:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtSl3Khf1aE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtSl3Khf1aE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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Yeah, you obviously couldn't care less about issues of gender and sexuality.

It's one thing not to love a show, or even to despise it. There are plenty of shows that I think are largely unredeemable.

But why trash the folks who DO like them? What kind of intellectual inferiority complex leads to deriding "English majors", "art school drop outs" and the like?

So, we get it: you hate the affluent, you hate New York, you hate English majors, you hate art school students, you hate the "artistically illiterate" (which means - literally - nothing), you hate guys in drag (sorry, Monty Python).

But, you know what, you haven't leveled an actual, thorough/coherent criticism at any of these shows. It's just a bunch of invective from - it would appear - someone without the critical wherewithal to take them on on the merits.

LJ - I'm onboard with just about everything you say on this forum regarding movies, music and TV; but sometimes you gotta let people vent. I don't think the OP was trying to be mean spirited, just trying to spark discussion. I've been known to do the same thing on occasion.

MemStad - Agree on almost all counts (even Kids in the Hall) except Sopranos season 1/2. That was some fantastic televsion.

I'm currently on Friday Night Lights kick. I hope you are currently watching that, as it's the best thing on TV right now.

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Hey. How's it going? Unless it simply doesn't jibe with your sense of humor, I don't think Kids in the Hall can be overrated. Funniest/ most important humor show of the last twenty years? Gotta be on the short list, if not at the top. Our generation's Monty Python (who, I think, are popular enough in retrospect that an awful lot of people either act like they like them to go along, or decide they simply can't. Also know as The Beatles effect :D ).

Evil! Uncooperative and evil!!

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I don't think Kids in the Hall can be overrated. Funniest/ most important humor show of the last twenty years? Gotta be on the short list, if not at the top. [/i]

I think your second/third sentences make it overrated. ;)

More seriously though...count me among the many people who just never thought the show to be very funny....but I admit that is only my opinion and others are entitle to theirs.

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This is just silly. Most shows "rip off" other shows. I mean there's only so many truly original ideas that have never been done before. What difference does it make if Law and Order (which was on quite a few years before NYPD BLUE) has an episode with an idea/story that's been before? If it's written well and acted well, isn't that all that really matters? I love The Wire and it's pretty original overall, but clearly there have been other shows that have focused on drug dealing or inner city struggles. Does that make it a bad show because another show may have had a similar story line?

Also about The Sopranos and mob movies/TV shows in general, there's only so many mob ideas to go around. But the main point of the Sopranos was Tony's struggle of balancing both of his families.

I liked Friends. I thought it was a very funny, well written and well acted show. Maybe there wasn't enough ethnicity for a show that was set in NY, but is that really a reason not to like something? I'm not saying you have to like it, just wondering about the reasoning.

I don't really see the point in bashing Hannah Montana, it's not a show made for you. Presumably you're not a preteen girl or younger.

American Idol isn't supposed to be groundbreaking or anything, it's supposed to be entertaining. Which it seems that 30 million people believe it is. I don't like most reality shows and I think they're stupid. But at least stuff like American Idol and Hell's Kitchen at least somewhat involve a competition based around a talent, unlike something like Survivor or Amazing Race.

Flight of the Conchords is hilarious.

So what if Cheers wasn't a hit initially? Why does that make it a bad show? Seinfeld wasn't the hit it was initially either, was it bad?

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