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Eaton's spring debut

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Please throw out the old lottery tickets with the numbers 29(Loewen), 18(Olson), and 61(Maine). Also, the pick-four ticket with the above and 49(Penn) is no longer valid.

We didn't throw out that ticket. We traded it for some nachos and a Big Gulp. And they did fill us up for a little bit. The problem is, while that ticket wasn't a jackpot winner by any means, it turned out to be a 5-out-of-6 match and paid the guy we traded it to a nice little dividend. ;)

Edited by Birds of B'more

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Wow, I lost it here, Penn replaces Eaton. :P

Still, Eaton is the last of our problems. Hell, he's kind of an asset.

Eaton himself isn't the problem. The problem is that someone of his ability and track record can be picked off the trash heap, invited to ST on MiL deal, and yet may very well be "good" enough to win a spot in the rotation. I know it's not ultimately about what the staff looks like on Opening Day, but it would still be a sad indictment on how things stand as of right now.

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Why doesn't it surprise me that what should have been a feel-good thread about an encouraging first outing by a guy who obviously had sufficient tools to warrant a very generous contract offer from Philly (which he clearly had a lot of trouble earning in full through his subsequent performance) turns into full-bash mode? Rather than hope Eaton does great and that other candidates for the pitching staff do even better, many posters who don't want him on the team would prefer that he sucks worse than the other ones suck!

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Why doesn't it surprise me that what should have been a feel-good thread about an encouraging first outing by a guy who obviously had sufficient tools to warrant a very generous contract offer from Philly (which he clearly had a lot of trouble earning in full through his subsequent performance) turns into full-bash mode? Rather than hope Eaton does great and that other candidates for the pitching staff do even better, many posters who don't want him on the team would prefer that he sucks worse than the other ones suck!

If they want him to fail, it's because his failure will support their own belief that they can be a superior GM by looking up stats on the internet. If he pitches decently, that would demonstrate that a GM needs to know more than it is possible for us to know as amateurs looking in from the outside, and that would blow-up the whole thing about being a message-board expert. So, not only would they'd rather he fail, they're indignant that he even has an opportunity. In this respect, whether he might actually help the O's is a very secondary matter. It's not about a "feel-good thread" about something encouraging, it's about feeling superior to a guy whose stats don't look so hot.

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Why doesn't it surprise me that what should have been a feel-good thread about an encouraging first outing by a guy who obviously had sufficient tools to warrant a very generous contract offer from Philly (which he clearly had a lot of trouble earning in full through his subsequent performance) turns into full-bash mode? Rather than hope Eaton does great and that other candidates for the pitching staff do even better, many posters who don't want him on the team would prefer that he sucks worse than the other ones suck!

If you don't understand why we want him to fail, then you clearly haven't looked at Eaton's stats, health, age, etc...over the last few years.

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On Penn, because he's still only 23. You have to give a guy like that a chance. He's shown plenty of upside.

And when was the last time we saw that upside?

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Why doesn't it surprise me that what should have been a feel-good thread about an encouraging first outing by a guy who obviously had sufficient tools to warrant a very generous contract offer from Philly (which he clearly had a lot of trouble earning in full through his subsequent performance) turns into full-bash mode? Rather than hope Eaton does great and that other candidates for the pitching staff do even better, many posters who don't want him on the team would prefer that he sucks worse than the other ones suck!

It's not that people want Eaton or Baez or anyone else to fail, per se. It's just that people find disturbing the idea that the front office would view someone like Adam Eaton as a security blanket, just because he has been in the majors for a long time, never mind the fact that he has never been very good and in fact has been quite bad for the last 2-3 seasons.

One of Bill James' biggest contributions to baseball knowledge was exposing the fallacy of relying on "proven" veterans, who really had never proven anything aside from the fact that they weren't very good, rather than giving "unproven" young players a chance.

Adam Eaton is the ultimate "proven veteran". Even if he manages to pitch 20 decent innings in Spring Training, it shouldn't outweigh the years of evidence that suggest that he isn't very good. If people on the board are bashing Eaton, it's because they are worried that the team is about to make a classically dumb decision because of an overreliance on recent small samples of data and a misplaced faith in the value of prior service time.

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If you don't understand why we want him to fail, then you clearly haven't looked at Eaton's stats, health, age, etc...over the last few years.

If so, you clearly haven't looked at the jersey on Eaton's back. Regardless of past performance, and how ridiculous the Philthy contract has proven out, the guy is an Oriole now. "Wanting him to fail" is a position that a true Oriole fan could never adopt now that he is wearing the orange, black and white. :angryfire:

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If so, you clearly haven't looked at the jersey on Eaton's back. Regardless of past performance, and how ridiculous the Philthy contract has proven out, the guy is an Oriole now. "Wanting him to fail" is a position that a true Oriole fan could never adopt now that he is wearing the orange, black and white. :angryfire:

No, the guy is in ST now...I don't want him to ever be an "official" Oriole.

The rest of this is just ra-ra fan stuff that ignores the big picture.

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If they want him to fail, it's because his failure will support their own belief that they can be a superior GM by looking up stats on the internet. If he pitches decently, that would demonstrate that a GM needs to know more than it is possible for us to know as amateurs looking in from the outside, and that would blow-up the whole thing about being a message-board expert. So, not only would they'd rather he fail, they're indignant that he even has an opportunity. In this respect, whether he might actually help the O's is a very secondary matter. It's not about a "feel-good thread" about something encouraging, it's about feeling superior to a guy whose stats don't look so hot.

This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. We are not talking about the "old" O's regime anymore. Eaton was brought in on a MiL contract and will not be forced onto the 40-man if it will result in the team losing a more valuable commodity. On OD, if the rotation includes Eaton, that means he has outperformed the other candidates in the ST audition, not that AM and the rest of the FO are hopelessly mired in a pre-Bill James mindset regarding the value of "proven veterans."

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No, the guy is in ST now...I don't want him to ever be an "official" Oriole.

The rest of this is just ra-ra fan stuff that ignores the big picture.

In ST for which squad? And please do explain your second sentence here and your omniscient perspective on the "big picture."

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It's not that people want Eaton or Baez or anyone else to fail, per se. It's just that people find disturbing the idea that the front office would view someone like Adam Eaton as a security blanket, just because he has been in the majors for a long time, never mind the fact that he has never been very good and in fact has been quite bad for the last 2-3 seasons.

One of Bill James' biggest contributions to baseball knowledge was exposing the fallacy of relying on "proven" veterans, who really had never proven anything aside from the fact that they weren't very good, rather than giving "unproven" young players a chance.

Adam Eaton is the ultimate "proven veteran". Even if he manages to pitch 20 decent innings in Spring Training, it shouldn't outweigh the years of evidence that suggest that he isn't very good. If people on the board are bashing Eaton, it's because they are worried that the team is about to make a classically dumb decision because of an overreliance on recent small samples of data and a misplaced faith in the value of prior service time.

We inked an experienced major league starting pitcher, an area of need last time I looked, to a MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. This veteran was perceived a couple of years ago as good enough to warrant a very generous contract offer from the Phillies. If that transaction is trashed as bringing in a security blanket, I think the Orioles along with every other team in the league would gladly plead guilty -- and ask where they could go to replicate this despicable crime spree.

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No, the guy is in ST now...I don't want him to ever be an "official" Oriole.

The rest of this is just ra-ra fan stuff that ignores the big picture.

But actually wanting someone to fail is a part of the big picture?

I'm not sure I follow.

What I understand is the Birds are trying out a veteran pitcher who has clearly struggled a bunch. However, if he gets 9-10 wins, keeps an ERA just south of 5 and runs out to the mound for 180 innings, isn't he similar to what we were trying to do with Looper?

A veteran arm to eat innings and allow the kids some time to get ready, be it this year or next IS part of the big picture. Eaton isn't any kind of long term answer, but the way the spring is going he could emerge as one of the best five arms we have to start the season.

We didn't sign him to a five-year deal, we signed the player to buy some time for younger pitchers who may not be ready today.

Why would we not want access to someone who could potentially fill that temporary veteran pitcher the team has wanted all winter long??

If he fails, he fails, but it didn't break the bank or harm any minor league pitcher's shot at the show. Because if ANY of the young guys are ready, they are going to get a spot.

And if most of our young pitchers are not ready, why WANT any pitcher to fail, who is here simply to buy time until they are ready to claim a spot?

-Don

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It's not that people want Eaton or Baez or anyone else to fail, per se. It's just that people find disturbing the idea that the front office would view someone like Adam Eaton as a security blanket, just because he has been in the majors for a long time, never mind the fact that he has never been very good and in fact has been quite bad for the last 2-3 seasons.

One of Bill James' biggest contributions to baseball knowledge was exposing the fallacy of relying on "proven" veterans, who really had never proven anything aside from the fact that they weren't very good, rather than giving "unproven" young players a chance.

Adam Eaton is the ultimate "proven veteran". Even if he manages to pitch 20 decent innings in Spring Training, it shouldn't outweigh the years of evidence that suggest that he isn't very good. If people on the board are bashing Eaton, it's because they are worried that the team is about to make a classically dumb decision because of an overreliance on recent small samples of data and a misplaced faith in the value of prior service time.

If you follow SG's logic in the other thread "Does it matter who starts opening day" and realize that this FO doesn't care how 2009 goes, at least the first half of it, then beating up on Eaton, Baez, et al is a waste of time. The only alternative is starting our AA talent, then this thread could be arguing whether we're ruining the career of several run pitchers by bringing them up too soon. At least that would be a worthy argument. Bashing pitchers (who are only here for 2009) on a team going nowhere in 2009 lends itself to Shacks explanation. LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME.

Edited by Fan4Life

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