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Three Run Homer

Penn is going down in flames

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The stuff about Penn "doing it at 20 and 21" is hard to digest now. He's basically been injured since then or had something wrong with him. So he is not the same guy that he was when he was 20 and 21. That said, I still think he's a work in progress and we might as well give him a shot at least in the BP to see if he can some how come close to the years when he was 20 and 21.

Okay. When I was a kid, I was a little intense and a little messed up and played baseball in such a way that I ruined my chances to play in college. I landed on balls I laid out to catch and twice tore my arm to pieces when people came to see me pitch. Lots of reasons for this and lots of stuff that is, by grace, far in the past.

When I look at Penn's history with the club, I have to think about the way I blew up the chances that I had. I didn't do it entirely on purpose, but I was the one who kept putting myself in a position to fail because part of me wanted to.

Is this what happened to Penn? If anybody out there has followed the guy closely, what are the chances his psyche brought on all of the mishaps? On the other hand, what effect have the mishaps had on his psyche? I know none of us can know, just wondering if anybody has any insight. Has he seen a sports psychologist? Could be a good thing for the guy.

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Trembley is really irking me with this interview. In particular:

After pausing for a few seconds, Trembley replied, 'Obviously, you have to evaluate what you saw today."

Then this little gem:

"In his case, you have to discount spring training," Trembley said. "He's never been very good in the spring. He's said that, I think he has a track record of that, and I think you base your decision on what he did for us last year and go from there."

I don't like that much. Let's completely write off Sherrill and give him the closer spot on a platter (don't like it), but lambast Penn for one outing?

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Penn might get one more opportunity to pitch before the Orioles break camp. How much of an impact will today's game have on his chances to make the rotation?

After pausing for a few seconds, Trembley replied, 'Obviously, you have to evaluate what you saw today."

That isn't good if you're Hayden Penn.

Trembley didn't use the defensive lapses behind Penn as an excuse for the right-hander's horrible line.

"I don't think that had anything to do with it," Trembley said. "He just didn't throw enough first-pitch strikes and fell behind and walked people. You're going to have situations where plays aren't made. You're going to have four-out innings. You've got to have enough to minimize the damage and he didn't have it, for whatever reason. I don't think it was his stuff."

What Trembley didn't say: "One spring training outing is irrelevant to our evaluation of whether Penn should be in the rotation."

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At this point I risk Penn to waivers, he's not pitching close to what he did in the minors and he's injury prone. It would be really hard for any club to carry him on their 25 man roster.

And the Orioles are probably going to have one of the worst starting rotations in baseball. I don't think any other team has a pitcher worth cutting to grab Penn instead.

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If we lose Penn to waivers because of guys like Eaton, and Baez, I'm going to be really disappointed.

I would have said three weeks ago that I would be dissappointed if Penn can't outpitch Baez and Eaton. It goes both ways.

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What Trembley didn't say: "One spring training outing is irrelevant to our evaluation of whether Penn should be in the rotation."

Yep....and DT is dead wrong.

Now, if they weren't really considering him for the rotation, then fine.

If he was your 6th or 7th starter and needed to see if he would step up, fine(ie, he is in your pen already).

But, if he was your 3rd, 4th or 5th starter going into this start, then it is beyond idiotic for him to still not be in the rotation.

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LJ one of the reasons I like you as a poster, is that you are logical.

Look at this logically:

1) The 2009 Orioles can not contend…

Agree, without miracles.

2) 20, and 21 year old Hayden Penn dominated AA, and AAA

Dominated? At 20 he had a 3.83 ERA on a Bowie team that had a 3.55. He wasn't an average pitcher on the Baysox. At 21 he pitched all of 88 innings for Ottawa, where he pitched very well (a 2.25 ERA), but on a team that had a 3.44 ERA.

I wouldn't really call pitching less than 200 innings to an ERA maybe a quarter of a run better than his teammates is dominating. He was good, and young. But let's not exaggerate.

3) Penn missed significant time due to recovery from an appendix surgery, and his elbow.

Yep.

4) Penn was flashing his old stuff by season end 2008.

Really? His FIP, in the Norfolk pitcher's paradise, in July-August was about 4.50.

5) Penn is just 24 years old, and is still under organizational control.

6) The Major League team currently lacks a ton of pitching options…

7) As you will not be promoting Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta….

You could say all of that about dozens of pitchers.

There is not a better existing alternative, in terms of age, prior performance, and potential vs Penn.

That doesn't mean he's not going to be terrible.

Just amazing to me that people care at all about 10-15 Spring Training innings… all that matters is determining if he is healthy, and ready to go.

Hand him the ball, until you are ready to go with the 'cavalry.'

I'm not sure who these people are who want to dump him based on this spring. What they wanted is to see some glimmer of improvement this spring after he hadn't really pitched much, or well in a very long time. Instead he's gotten rocked. His translated ERA from 2008 is well over 6.00. He hasn't stayed healthy very often. He's shown nothing this spring...

I just can't see a major league team giving him the ball every fifth day. How much rope do you give him? Like Trachsel, where it's May and we're staring 40 runs in 40 innings in the face? How is letting him get shelled moving him forward, helping his confidence, or doing anything positive?

I guess I can see giving him a spot in the pen. But I don't see any team picking him up on waivers when so many other players who've done something since 2006 will be out there looking for jobs.

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At this point I risk Penn to waivers, he's not pitching close to what he did in the minors and he's injury prone. It would be really hard for any club to carry him on their 25 man roster.

And the Orioles are probably going to have one of the worst starting rotations in baseball. I don't think any other team has a pitcher worth cutting to grab Penn instead.

You freaked out over Salazar and Moore being waived but are in favor of Penn being waived? WOW!

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Well… you and I have been arguing the point for nearly 8 years.

Can't speak for you, but I've only been a member of OH since late in the '03 season. Unless you were arguing the point with me on the AOL board, we've only been arguing 5-6 years at best. ;)

But I don't consider myself dogmatic on the issue of giving chances to young players. You judge in each case what's best for them and best for the team. Believe me, I was 100% behind the decision to jump Nick Markakis from AA to the majors. I was 100% behind the decision to play Adam Jones every day last year. I'm on board with the decision to give a major opportunity to Felix Pie this year (though, unlike some, I need to see some progress within three months to justify continuing to give him regular playing time).

I just don't like what I've seen from Penn for 2+ years now. I don't do "experiments" that I think have a 90% chance of failure or making the situation worse for the young player. He needs to build up some confidence and consistency before he's out facing major league hitters every 5th day.

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Agree, without miracles.

Dominated? At 20 he had a 3.83 ERA on a Bowie team that had a 3.55. He wasn't an average pitcher on the Baysox. At 21 he pitched all of 88 innings for Ottawa, where he pitched very well (a 2.25 ERA), but on a team that had a 3.44 ERA.

I wouldn't really call pitching less than 200 innings to an ERA maybe a quarter of a run better than his teammates is dominating. He was good, and young. But let's not exaggerate.

Yep.

Really? His FIP, in the Norfolk pitcher's paradise, in July-August was about 4.50.

You could say all of that about dozens of pitchers.

That doesn't mean he's not going to be terrible.

I'm not sure who these people are who want to dump him based on this spring. What they wanted is to see some glimmer of improvement this spring after he hadn't really pitched much, or well in a very long time. Instead he's gotten rocked. His translated ERA from 2008 is well over 6.00. He hasn't stayed healthy very often. He's shown nothing this spring...

I just can't see a major league team giving him the ball every fifth day. How much rope do you give him? Like Trachsel, where it's May and we're staring 40 runs in 40 innings in the face? How is letting him get shelled moving him forward, helping his confidence, or doing anything positive?

I guess I can see giving him a spot in the pen. But I don't see any team picking him up on waivers when so many other players who've done something since 2006 will be out there looking for jobs.

youneverknow

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At this point I risk Penn to waivers, he's not pitching close to what he did in the minors and he's injury prone. It would be really hard for any club to carry him on their 25 man roster.

And the Orioles are probably going to have one of the worst starting rotations in baseball. I don't think any other team has a pitcher worth cutting to grab Penn instead.

This is getting scary... I've actually agreed with most of one your posts twice in two days.

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