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jjdman

Todays lineup: No Markakis Again

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There's a part of this whole alleged-issue that I just don't understand. But first, let me tell you what I *do* understand. I understand that Nick needs regular ML experience to get better. I understand that, if he's not gonna get PT in the bigs, he should be riding a bus. Getting ABs at Ottawa is better than not-getting ABs in Baltimore. Playing the OF at Ottawa is better than not-playing the OF in Baltimore. I buy these things, they make perfect sense to me. I also understand that some people are not gonna like Sam's lineup, *especially* if he's getting everybody playing time. I understand how arguments happen about lineups.

What I don't understand is why folks are digging in to absolute positions and creating a rigid choice: *either* he plays all the time up in the bigs *or* he should be at Ottawa. This makes no sense to me at all. In other threads, people talk about how AAA is not full of brilliant talent... how most of the really good young talent is at AA... how AAA is mostly a holding bin for spare parts, full of guys who are likely to *always* be marginal. Yet, we get onto the topic of Nick's ABs and all the sudden playing 6 games a week at Ottawa is somehow better than 4 or 5 games a week in Baltimore? How is this possible? If Nick is such a talent, then isn't he better seeing *real* MLB pitchers 4 or 5 games a week than seeing crappy pitchers who can't cut it 6 or 7 days a week? Isn't he better hanging out with successful big league hitters all the time, talking about hitting, learning all the little things, soaking up what it's like to be really good? Do you really think he's gonna learn more hanging around with hitters who are in Ottawa? Who are those hitters in Ottawa? Aren't they precisely the hitters who aren't good enough to make it?

* If Nick's team is at bat, and Nick's sitting with everybody on the bench waiting for their turn, and Nick is BS'ing with the catchers about hitting and pitching, who do you want him BSing with? Ramon and Javy? Or Eli and Chavez? Why in the world would you want Nick hanging around with AAA guys?

* Think about how marginal some of the pitchers in the big-league bullpens are. With the exception of a very-few people like Hayden Penn, most AAA pitchers are guys who are *worse* than our *worst* BP guys. What do you think is more useful for Nick's development? Having a *moderate* number of ABs against people like Schilling and Mussina? Or having *lots* of ABs against people who are of lesser quality than our worst BP guys?

Yet people are saying that, either Sam should make out the lineup they way they want, or else Nick belongs in Ottawa. I don't understand this. It seems nuts to me. To me, it sounds like another case of "numbers gone wild", as if the total *number* of AB's is the *only* thing that matters... as if the quality of the opposition and the quality of Nick's teammates count for nothing. I think that's goofy. I'd much rather Nick get 400 ABs in the bigs than 550 ABs at Ottawa. That's 400 AB's vs. top-quality pitching, and it happens when he's around teammates who *know* hitting, teammates who can sit around with him and shoot the bull about how to get better at it. I'd think that's way better than an extra 100 or so ABs against ML rejects while toiling away in the spare parts bin.

So, except for the usual sturm-und-drang about Sam not filling out the lineup card the way you wish he would, I don't understand what all the fuss is really about.

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Funny, not one of the Perlozzo/Conine supporters can give us one good reason why Conine/Millar should be getting 20 straight at bats without Nick getting one. Not one.

Even if you subscribe to the theory that 400 at bats is fine for Markakis, no one can tell me why he should sit two straight games against mediocre right-handed pitching. Maybe this was the exact kind of pitching that gives him his first multi-hit game and watches his confidence raise?

I agree with vtech that we'll have a better idea after 40 games, but I disagree that Perlozzo did not miss an opportunity here.

I also disagree with the poster/(s) that says that Perlozzo's job is not to help develop Markakis. Of course it is. If Markakis is not ready to play everyday in the majors, he should be in the minors. If he's ready to play, he should see playing time against mediocre right-handed pitching everyday of the week over the likes of Conine and Millar. A few of you act like we're asking to bench Jay Gibbons or Tejada so he can play. We're saying that a 22-year old with unlimited potential should be playing over two guys in the tail end of their careers and who have no reason to be everyday players in the big leagues anymore.

Don't get me wrong, used correctly, both Conine and Millar can be helpful to a major league club, but they should not be getting opportunities at the expense of Markakis, especially in back to back games at home against mediocre right-handed pitching.

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If he's ready to play, he should see playing time against mediocre right-handed pitching everyday of the week over the likes of Conine and Millar. A few of you act like we're asking to bench Jay Gibbons or Tejada so he can play. We're saying that a 22-year old with unlimited potential should be playing over two guys in the tail end of their careers and who have no reason to be everyday players in the big leagues anymore.

Totally agree Tony and I dont see why others dont see this is as well. 450 ABs for Markakis should be one goal, but the other goal should be giving him the best opportunity to develop and succeed in those 450 ABs which is why he should have been in the lineup today.

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no one can tell me why he should sit two straight games against mediocre right-handed pitching.

Well, I think the fact that the lineup scored 18 runs the night before might have had something to do with it. But again, I'm thoroughly disgusted by Conine being hit second and in my perfect world we'd start Patterson (who is showing signs of life, by the way, go figure!) and Markakis as everyday OFs with Gibbons while Newhan and Matos are on the shelf.

I think Kakes was benched two straight games because of the offensive productivity the lineup showed the night before. I think he (Kakes) gets significant playing time this weekend in the Bronx. I can just see it now on Monday:

Chris Russo: I'll tell you what, Mikey, this kid Mawkockis (butchering the name of course) is the real deal! He's TWEMENDOUS!!

Francesa: Yeah dawg.

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Funny, not one of the Perlozzo/Conine supporters can give us one good reason why Conine/Millar should be getting 20 straight at bats without Nick getting one. Not one.

Even if you subscribe to the theory that 400 at bats is fine for Markakis, no one can tell me why he should sit two straight games against mediocre right-handed pitching. Maybe this was the exact kind of pitching that gives him his first multi-hit game and watches his confidence raise?

I agree with vtech that we'll have a better idea after 40 games, but I disagree that Perlozzo did not miss an opportunity here.

I also disagree with the poster/(s) that says that Perlozzo's job is not to help develop Markakis. Of course it is. If Markakis is not ready to play everyday in the majors, he should be in the minors. If he's ready to play, he should see playing time against mediocre right-handed pitching everyday of the week over the likes of Conine and Millar. A few of you act like we're asking to bench Jay Gibbons or Tejada so he can play. We're saying that a 22-year old with unlimited potential should be playing over two guys in the tail end of their careers and who have no reason to be everyday players in the big leagues anymore.

Don't get me wrong, used correctly, both Conine and Millar can be helpful to a major league club, but they should not be getting opportunities at the expense of Markakis, especially in back to back games at home against mediocre right-handed pitching.

While I agree with the sentiment of the side that says Markakis should be playing every day, aside form the occassional day off, its hard to argue with the success of the lineup the past two games. Now, had Markakis played and Conine not, there is a very real chance that we STILL would have scored nine runs today. However, there is also the chance that we would have lost 4 to 3, and then this thread would have been titled, "Why did Perlozzo bench Conine and change the lineup after scoring 18 runs Wednesday night?"

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Don't get me wrong, used correctly, both Conine and Millar can be helpful to a major league club, but they should not be getting opportunities at the expense of Markakis, especially in back to back games at home against mediocre right-handed pitching.

Many of us foresaw this becoming a problem when they were signed.

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Funny, not one of the Perlozzo/Conine supporters can give us one good reason why Conine/Millar should be getting 20 straight at bats without Nick getting one. Not one....

I also disagree with the poster/(s) that says that Perlozzo's job is not to help develop Markakis.

I'm not a big Conine supporter. But when it comes to your comment about what Sam's job is and isn't, that probably would be me you are referring to. Let's try not to let the words get in the way. Of course it is part of Sam's job to help Nick develop. But that is not the main part of his job. The main part of his job is to manage the roster in a way that wins the most ballgames. He should use Nick in ways he think will help with that, and he should not use Nick in ways that he thinks will not help that. He also must do this while attending to what he thinks is best for Nick, and what he thinks is best for other players as well.

The thing we gotta remember about managing is that it is not a job of attending to just *one* thing. The job involves keeping about 9 things in your mind, and tending to about 12 other things, all at once. That's why arguments about things like this issue can miss so much stuff that's important, simply because the *argument* focuses on one issue, when in *reality* there are many issues in play all at once, not just the one that's being argued about.

As for "20 straight at bats", boy that sure sounds like a big number. I think you're talking about 2 ballgames, is that right? I guess if Sam could figure out a way to put Nick into two slots in the lineup in the same game, then his number of ABs could get really big in only 2 games too, huh? ;-)

I have no particular answer for why Sam did that. Others have suggested possibilities. When we're looking at it all from a zillion miles away, or even a couple hundred yards away, there's no way to know. I don't know why Sam did it. I assume he did it because he thought it would be the best way for the team to win those 2 games, with maybe some hunches and gut-feelings thown into the mix. But I don't think it's a big deal that Nick had 2 days off. Most people in the working world get 2 days off in a row. It'd be different if Sam sat him for a week-and-half, but that's not what he did.

Anyway, I am curious about your opinion. If you stop and think about it, do you *really* think that 500+ ABs in Ottawa would be *better* for Nick than 428 (which is the schedule he's on) in the big leagues? I gather you think that Nick should play about everyday, but if that's not what's gonna happen, do you *really* think it's better for the kid to be facing a bunch of Nobodies down there?

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Starting Nick over Conine against righties should give us the best chance to win, if not, Nick shouldn't be with the O's right now.

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I agree. Markakis will learn the most by being at the plate in game situations. Conine, etc., have had that opportunity.

Sitting Markakis two straight days is wrong. So Conine had a good day -- he can sit and contemplate it today and come back and play first tomorrow. We don't need both Millar and Conine in consecutive day lineups while Nick watches. That does nothing to improve this franchise's future.

The O's need a number 2 hitter. Conine is producing so far. Patterson needs playing time. He's showing some progress; you have to go with that. Where do you play Markakis? So Conine could play 1b or Dh but Javey is starting to rake. So it's Markakis vs Millar until Javey, Conine, or CPat start to decline.

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The O's need a number 2 hitter. Conine is producing so far. Patterson needs playing time. He's showing some progress; you have to go with that. Where do you play Markakis? So Conine could play 1b or Dh but Javey is starting to rake. So it's Markakis vs Millar until Javey, Conine, or CPat start to decline.

How is he producing? He just went 1-5 with a lucky bloop single. The game before he did go 3-6(all singles), although I don't recall him hitting the ball that well. Before that he was 3 for 31.

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In the whatever its worth department, I don't see how you can say Markakis isn't getting his AB's...unless you don't want Conine on the field at all.

Including today's game:

AB

Gibbons 65

Conine 42

Markakis 41

Newhan 34 (on DL)

Matos 29 (on DL)

Patterson 24

Looks like he's getting his swings to me.

Nick should be getting more at bats than Conine period.!!!

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Funny, not one of the Perlozzo/Conine supporters can give us one good reason why Conine/Millar should be getting 20 straight at bats without Nick getting one. Not one.

Even if you subscribe to the theory that 400 at bats is fine for Markakis, no one can tell me why he should sit two straight games against mediocre right-handed pitching. Maybe this was the exact kind of pitching that gives him his first multi-hit game and watches his confidence raise?

I agree with vtech that we'll have a better idea after 40 games, but I disagree that Perlozzo did not miss an opportunity here.

I also disagree with the poster/(s) that says that Perlozzo's job is not to help develop Markakis. Of course it is. If Markakis is not ready to play everyday in the majors, he should be in the minors. If he's ready to play, he should see playing time against mediocre right-handed pitching everyday of the week over the likes of Conine and Millar. A few of you act like we're asking to bench Jay Gibbons or Tejada so he can play. We're saying that a 22-year old with unlimited potential should be playing over two guys in the tail end of their careers and who have no reason to be everyday players in the big leagues anymore.

Don't get me wrong, used correctly, both Conine and Millar can be helpful to a major league club, but they should not be getting opportunities at the expense of Markakis, especially in back to back games at home against mediocre right-handed pitching.

It seems to me that the conflict is between the guys that say we have no chance to do anything this year; play for the future and Perlozzo's position which has to be win now. How could Sam in his first year as manager say we can't win. His job is to win as many ballgame as he can. That means go with who's hot now.

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OK, I'll buy you your beverage.. But I'm still right!! :) One bloop Conine double won't change my mind. In fact, the Orioles hitting is contagious and Markakis could have been enjoying this as well. Instead, he'll get his at bats against the Yankees instead of this horrible Cleveland pitching.

Perlozzo and his supporters may have won this battle, but they will lose the war in the long run with Perlozzo's short sightedness.

Come on, guys, let's talk about the real winner in Thursday's game: me.

In fact, I think, based on this outcome, I should be batting second.:002_sbiggrin:

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