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JTrea81

Congrats to Bergesen!

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Way not to answer the question.

Have you even considered the possibility that he usually has BETTER command of his slider?

He is usually around the plate with all of his pitches. I'm comfortable considering that a fact. However, ML hitters are less likely to chase close strikes than AA and AAA hitters, and Bergy's SL (even when he commands it) has average depth and bite. It just isn't a swing-and-miss pitch.

That means in order for it to really be successful, he needs to set it up with his fastball (2S in particular since that gives the opposite read to a hitter). If he can use the two well together, he'll produce bad contact when he's on. When he misses, he'll be missing with a very average breaking ball.

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It's pretty awesome that a thread congratulating Bergesen on a fine debut for once out of one of our pitching prospects has turned into a back and forth argument over his potential. When there's a thread about "Project Bergesen's Potential", then have at it. I'm not a moderator and I don't have a problem with people sharing thoughts here and there but it's ridiculous that the general tenor of this thread is more of a negative discussion around what people think Bergesen can't be. I'm proud of you guys, keep it up!

I don't think anyone on here is unhappy with what Brad did tonight, and I think we all hope to see this type of performance each time out. If we're discussing a performance, I think it makes sense to discuss the whole performance and not just the good stuff.

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I can't go back to look tonight unfortunately, but I'm pretty sure he caught it moving at an easyish pace and one foot was firmly on the track with the other about to land on the track (previous off the grass). The ball would have landed in the middle of the warning track IMO. It wasn't that impressive of a shot, but it is worrisome that a fairly poor hitter like Josh Fields can square up a slider to the opposite field for 375 feet or so.

Are you being serious?

Your arguement on balls hit hard is so poor. These are Major League Hitters at the plate hear. They are going to hit the ball hard all the time. And you are worried that ONE slider was hit hard? Really? Bergy always stays down in the zone and enduces ground balls. Sure, there will definitely be days that he is hit hard, but it happens to everyone.

I am by no means saying Bergy will be a top of the rotation or even middle of the rotation starter. But he can certainly be a number 4 starter on this team for years to come.

His fastball got up to 94 today, and he was changing his speeds real well. I thought his two seamer had some good life to it and I think he needs to trust his change up more.

And that slider to Quentin in the first inning was nasty. And I guarantee you any other pitcher on this staff walks Quentin in that atbat.

To critique Bergy on his first start just seems unfair. I dont know nearly as much as you do Tech, or Crawdad, but I just think you should wait and see what Kranitz does and how he matures as he gets older and get more starts.

BTW, Congrats Bergy! :beerchug1:

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I don't think anyone on here is unhappy with what Brad did tonight, and I think we all hope to see this type of performance each time out. If we're discussing a performance, I think it makes sense to discuss the whole performance and not just the good stuff.

What does Bergesen most likely ending up a reliever have to do with discussing tonight's performance? Do what you want, but it's bad taste IMO.

You act like we haven't been watching "starters" like Eaton & Hendrickson this year.

Why it's so important to make sure you're making a strong case that Bergesen's potential isn't as a starter is beyond me. Especially tonight.

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Great game! So glad we called him up he is going to be a great asset to this team especially if he keeps that kind of stuff up. Now if Rich Hill comes back and can give us a little something than we may have a ok rotation still lacking the big number 1 but we are getting there guys!

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What does Bergesen most likely ending up a reliever have to do with discussing tonight's performance? Do what you want, but it's bad taste IMO.

You act like we haven't been watching "starters" like Eaton & Hendrickson this year.

Why it's so important to make sure you're making a strong case that Bergesen's potential isn't as a start is beyond me. Especially tonight.

Hmmm. I don't see anything I've written on here indicating he'll be a reliever aside from one post in which I say eventually I think BAL will have five better starters in the rotation. I see various posts where I say he can be a productive back-end starter. I'm not sure what the issue is?

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Hmmm. I don't see anything I've written on here indicating he'll be a reliever aside from one post in which I say eventually I think BAL will have five better starters in the rotation. I see various posts where I say he can be a productive back-end starter. I'm not sure what the issue is?

This wasn't solely about what you were saying. It's just the general tenor being so critical, on a night like tonight. But it's all good, to each his own.

BTW, I do appreciate your insight normally. This isn't personal, just an observation in this thread (not only at you) that rubbed me the wrong way. But i'm just one person.

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He is usually around the plate with all of his pitches. I'm comfortable considering that a fact. However, ML hitters are less likely to chase close strikes than AA and AAA hitters, and Bergy's SL (even when he commands it) has average depth and bite. It just isn't a swing-and-miss pitch.

That means in order for it to really be successful, he needs to set it up with his fastball (2S in particular since that gives the opposite read to a hitter). If he can use the two well together, he'll produce bad contact when he's on. When he misses, he'll be missing with a very average breaking ball.

Bergesen's calling card is location. No one ever said he had plus stuff. IF he locates his fastball and slider he'll do just fine. If he doesn't he'll get pounded. So far in his career, he's made the adjustments as he's moved up the ladder. We'll need to see quite a few more starts to determine how consistent he can be with his location. An average slider thrown at the knees is a good pitch. Location, location, location.

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This wasn't solely about what you were saying. It's just the general tenor being so critical, on a night like tonight. But it's all good, to each his own.

BTW, I do appreciate your insight normally. This isn't personal, just an observation in this thread (not only at you) that rubbed me the wrong way. But i'm just one person.

No worries. I certainly don't mean to pee in anyone's cheerios. I think everyone was happy to see Bergesen poised and in control of the game. He was confident and handled himself well -- what more can you reasonably ask from a first start?

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Great game! So glad we called him up he is going to be a great asset to this team especially if he keeps that kind of stuff up. Now if Rich Hill comes back and can give us a little something than we may have a ok rotation still lacking the big number 1 but we are getting there guys!

Our rotation may lack a true "ace." But, if we can get starts like we had tonight on a consistent basis, while score runs like we did during the first week or so, it'll at least make the season watchable.

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Bergesen's calling card is location. No one ever said he had plus stuff. IF he locates his fastball and slider he'll do just fine. If he doesn't he'll get pounded. So far in his career, he's made the adjustments as he's moved up the ladder. We'll need to see quite a few more starts to determine how consistent he can be with his location. An average slider thrown at the knees is a good pitch. Location, location, location.

Yup. The question will be to what extent his shortcomings are magnified by ML hitters.

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If I seem critical, that certainly isn't my intent. I'm simply trying to be as honest as I can be. I find that this place tends to overstate the good when things go well and overstate the bad when things go poorly (Pie is a great current example) so I try to balance out the coverage as much as I can. And, of course, this is only one guy's opinion of what he saw.

However, I agree we should all be celebrating his great debut regardless of what the future holds. Great job by BB!!!

Exactly! That was really my main issue.

You are definitely level headed and offer very good insight that I really appreciate. And I definitely agree with you, i'm making sure to not get ahead of myself. But i'm surely going to enjoy this one for tonight at least. ;)

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I would like everyone to just remember that Bergesen started last year in Frederick. He only got the chance to pitch in Bowie because of injury to Spoone. He has been on an amazing ride the last year.

I like this guy. He probably maxes out at as a number 3 guy, sure but we need this kinda potential work horse.

I want to see Hernandez now. I want to know if his stuff can translate to big league wins also. I dont want to hear Eaton's name again.

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Here's my two BB thoughts.

I'd be curious to hear Mark Buehrle's take on the performance. He's the guy I think uses pace to his advantage as much as anyone.

Given BB's profile, should DT experiment with sacrificing some offense, and putting both Izturis and Andino in the infield behind him? Maybe Andino makes that play Wigginton didn't tonight...

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Here's my two BB thoughts.

I'd be curious to hear Mark Buehrle's take on the performance. He's the guy I think uses pace to his advantage as much as anyone.

Given BB's profile, should DT experiment with sacrificing some offense, and putting both Izturis and Andino in the infield behind him? Maybe Andino makes that play Wigginton didn't tonight...

I'm only responding because Buehrle came to my mind last night as a comp for Bergesen. Buehrle works fast and is primarily a two pitch pitcher (AFAIK). His fastball is pretty much the same as far as velocity, high 80's touching 90-91.

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