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Congrats to Bergesen!

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Buzzkiller.:eektf:

A 23 year old with very good minor league success pitches that game and you come up with this post?

I disagree on the slider too. He threw some good ones tonight.

I agree. Man what does it take? Geez on a night when this kid won his first game. Some are finding fault with something. Damn hell. Getting to be every damn day someone has to say something negative about one of the O's plaeyrs. Dammit.

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Congrats to Mr. Bergeson! What a wonderful ML debut. Worked fast, threw strikes and limited the damage. I don't think you could have scripted his first start much better. It was a shot in the arm that the team really needed.

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Congrats to Mr. Bergeson! What a wonderful ML debut. Worked fast, threw strikes and limited the damage. I don't think you could have scripted his first start much better. It was a shot in the arm that the team really needed.

It sure must ahve been fun to watch. Yes, it was a shot int he arm for the O's.

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Definitely a job well done. I saw from the 4th inning on, and what I saw I liked...very impressed by Berg.

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Brad Bergesen is the reason you draft and trade for pitchers, not throwers. He didn't overwhelm anyone, but he kept the ball down and had command of all his pitches. Hats off to you Brad! Congrats on the W!!!

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He is going to have to expand upon two pitches. His slider is just not MLB quality. His second time through the order was somewhat difficult and I think it will get harder as he becomes more exposed. That said, he was placing his 4 and 2 seamers quite well. He has those two pitches down. They are not great, but his command of them is quite good.

He looks like a middle reliever to me in the long run. Hopefully, he can toil around in the starting rotation for the rest of the year and provide some relief.

I somewhat agree with this. He has great fastball command, and I'd venture to say his 2 seamer/sinker were good at times. I did see that he was getting hit a lot harder the second time through. He is very good at getting ground balls, so he may be best suited to come in and get a crucial ground out like Bradford was used for, but for now he's probably our #3 starter.

His delivery looks pretty effortless. I'd like to see some video on him just to get an idea of his mechanics.

Overall, he looks like he could be a solid starter in the back end of the rotation, or a Jim Johnson type reliever who could dominate an inning or go a few innings of solid pitching.

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Ah the never ending battle between the analysts and the fanatics.

I tend to respect Stotle's views on these subjects. He knows much more than me about this stuff and I hope he continues to post his take on what he saw, despite the criticism he and others have taken on this thread. I too enjoyed a well pitched game by a pitcher that potentially could help us in 2010, 2011, 2012..... Pretty exciting stuff to me as a fan but I also like to hear what other more knowledgable posters saw.

I liked that virtually nothing he threw was straight (hopefully Liz was watching) and very few seemed to go down the middle. I loved the pace and poise.

I didn't like some of the nibbling in counts where he was ahead and there were a good many balls that were hit hard with 0-2 counts.

By his own admission he was extremely nervous so it will be interesting to see where he goes from here. All in all, it was just nice to see a well pitched game.

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I think tonight was a big win for him. He really came through with a good performance. But, yeah, I think he is what he is. He might be able to refine some things and stick in the rotation. If his command ever decreases slightly on a bad day . . . he'll be chased very early. With two pitches . . . they have to both be working well.

I think this is what is wrong with scouting VS. results sometimes. Many in this thread see him struggling to keep an ERA below 5 and possibly having to move to the bullpen DESPITE the results. This guy was great in AA last year and has been trending upward for a good while now with his K rate.

Adam Loewen was the opposite. He NEVER had results yet people looked at his stuff and figured him to be a top of the rotation guy.

I think it is very possible to over analyze the minutia without taking the RESULTS into consideration.

Bergesen is a results pitcher. Who cares what it looks like!

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I think this is what is wrong with scouting VS. results sometimes. Many in this thread see him struggling to keep an ERA below 5 and possibly having to move to the bullpen DESPITE the results. This guy was great in AA last year and has been trending upward for a good while now with his K rate.

Adam Loewen was the opposite. He NEVER had results yet people looked at his stuff and figured him to be a top of the rotation guy.

I think it is very possible to over analyze the minutia without taking the RESULTS into consideration.

Bergesen is a results pitcher. Who cares what it looks like!

Sweet! This is the first time I have been called a scout geek. I have been called a stat geek countless times. I am diversifying.

:)

That said, results are being analyzed. Scouting is being analyzed. This is a mash of qualitative and quantitative analyses . . . and then coming to an answer. Bergesen did not show us much new. It is hard to change an opinion when his start is within the range many of us were expecting. Now, he may be some Jamie Moyer wunderkind. That would be great. Unfortunately, that is a pretty poor model to follow for success. If he solidifies a third pitch, he could definitely be that guy. Moyer was about 33 or 34 when he figured it all out. As far as I can remember it happened with an improvement in his change up.

Eh, we will see.

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This wasn't solely about what you were saying. It's just the general tenor being so critical, on a night like tonight. But it's all good, to each his own.

BTW, I do appreciate your insight normally. This isn't personal, just an observation in this thread (not only at you) that rubbed me the wrong way. But i'm just one person.

You aren't alone.

Many here are overlooking a years worth of results in favor of their own scouting/nitpicking.

Probably the same people overlooking Pie's lack of results in favor of their scouting/nitpicking.

Edited by bird watcher

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Hawk and Stone, the White Sox announcers, were all over the sink.

Hawk was most impressed by the fact that the Sox were fouling off a lot of pitches into the ground. He said that shows the downward movement and bodes well for the future.

They also loved the fact he grabbed the ball, and threw it. Very important for a groundball pitcher.

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You aren't alone.

Many here are overlooking a years worth of results in favor of their own scouting/nitpicking.

Probably the same people overlooking Pie's lack of results in favor of their scouting/nitpicking.

That is pretty unfair. Many of us are trying to determine what value lies in these players. None of us are flawless and I am certainly not concerned about the community view of my perspective. If I see that I error in my analysis, I will say so. Just dismissing us because you think I am being protective of my rep is rather insulting. I'm not sure how you can be so sure there is only one way to look at this and think all those who oppose have some self-serving purpose to it.

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That is pretty unfair. Many of us are trying to determine what value lies in these players. None of us are flawless and I am certainly not concerned about the community view of my perspective. If I see that I error in my analysis, I will say so. Just dismissing us because you think I am being protective of my rep is rather insulting. I'm not sure how you can be so sure there is only one way to look at this and think all those who oppose have some self-serving purpose to it.

Where did I say anything about your rep? Please don't build a straw man here.

I am not trying to insult anyone. I am instead highlighting what I feel to be a major flaw in the "group think" projections that go on.

People (players) get pigeon-holed into a certain ceiling early on and it tends to stay with them despite the results. I see that happening here with Bergesen and I see that happening with Pie and Montanez.

I don't think there is one way to look at it either. I never said that. I am just more likely to look at results over projections, unless someone is really young for their level, thats all.

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