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JTrea81

Congrats to Bergesen!

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Handful of times. This is honestly the first time that I've heard "in person" is not the best way to gauge stuff and location. As an aside, I don't know where you pulled out this axe to grind, but you seem to be civil to everyone in this thread, save for two posters. It'd be nice for you to extend that nicety to everyone...We're all just here to talk baseball.

You and Craw have show plenty of attitude also in this thread. Shame that you don't even know it. I am talking baseball. Get over yourself.

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I agree completely with this post. He did great for a debut. It was as much as we could reasonably hope for IMO.

And I think it's even more impressive considering the circumstances. Orioles fans were looking to Bergesen for hope. And coming off a 5 game losing streak and facing a hot WS team, the Orioles needed Bergesen to step it up and he did, even after waiting out a rain delay to make his debut.

He could have folded under the pressure, but he almost had a QS and gave his team the chance to win, which they took advantage of in spades.

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I just got back from the game and am still thrilled with Bergesen's debut. What a way to "show up" in the bigs.

Now, i'm not going to get ahead of myself here, but this was such a breath of fresh air. A few things that stood out to me was how intelligent and how poised he is. Not to mention his command. When he missed, for the most part he missed down. I believe it was Thome who gave a high pitch a ride to center, but Pie made the play thankfully.

Quentin's first AB was a big test for BB, IMO. He kept fouling off pitches and Bergesen realized that Quentin was committed to swinging and fouling off pitches until he could get a good pitch to drive. Bergesen didn't give in, instead with the count full he put a pitch even lower, close to in the dirt, and struck out one of the best hitters in baseball.

He worked fast, kept the ball low & worked out of a couple of jams. It's hard not to get excited about this debut, and so what. I'm very excited, it's great to have a pitching prospect come up and leave his diapers back in the minors. He was ready and it showed. I hope he can keep it up.

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Yeah, it was a full count -- those two SL I mentioned and a 2S that missed outside after being up 0-2.

Regardless, this isn't a dialogue, it's you nitpicking part of the facts to try and fit into a view you'd like to be accurate (no offense). Let's revisit this convo in one month -- I think maybe VaTech, Crawdad and I will look less "crazy" to you then...

That's nice of you to try and twise my argument but no thanks. I am commenting on the start tonight and I never said you guys were crazy. I just question how some of you can make such judgements (he's a middle reliever) off of one start. That's just as silly as someone saying he's definitley going to be a mainstay in the rotation from one start.

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You and Craw have show plenty of attitude also in this thread. Shame that you don't even know it. I am talking baseball. Get over yourself.

Well, we aren't really a packaged deal. If you'd care to clarify your issue with me in particular, you can send me a message. Otherwise, kindly afford me the courteousness you've shown everyone else. Thanks.

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The difference between a back end starter and a middle reliever is not far apart. Not sure why you are so adamant about this line.

Not on the Orioles it's not. I think this is a big part of the infatuation with Bergesen, nevertheless it's a breath of fresh air and hopefully he'll be a mainstay in the back end of our rotation. Every rotation needs back end starters, preferably ones that are better than the one's we've had for the past several years. I think Bergesen fits that bill.

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Well, we aren't really a packaged deal. If you'd care to clarify your issue with me in particular, you can send me a message. Otherwise, kindly afford me the courteousness you've shown everyone else. Thanks.

Again, get over yourself. If you can't take a little give and take then I'm surprised you've lasted this long on the Hangout. You aren't a package deal and yet you included yourself with (I'm assuming Craw) as two people I was uncivil to. I think I've been crystal clear in this thread. Why would I need to send a private message? This isn't personal. It's baseball!!!!!!!

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That's nice of you to try and twise my argument but no thanks. I am commenting on the start tonight and I never said you guys were crazy. I just question how some of you can make such judgements (he's a middle reliever) off of one start. That's just as silly as someone saying he's definitley going to be a mainstay in the rotation from one start.

So, I guess we can all only say "I have no idea what he will eventually be."?

For some reason, you are getting upset that a handful of people have an opinion that Bergesen (through past performance and tonight's performance) looks like a back-end starter or reliever. In fact, Craw posted on this thread that back-end is his potential but not where he thinks he ends up with BAL (because there will be five better pitchers eventually in the rotation). There is nothing crazy about any of that. It's actually quite measured.

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His 4 seamer and his 2 seamer are distinctly different with a lot of movement. His slider and his change will improve. It's not like we bring these guys up and what you see on day 1 is what you're going to see 5 years from now. His 2 seamer looks very hard to deal with for righties. He will be a solid 4 or 5. If we are going to have 4 guys come up better than him and push him out, that's a great problem to have and probably a little optimistic. He doesn't make life hard for himself. He does what we have all wanted to see. Throws the ball over the plate. Sure, he's going to have days where he gets the ball up in the zone and gets knocked around a little bit. Everybody does.

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So, I guess we can all only say "I have no idea what he will eventually be."?

For some reason, you are getting upset that a handful of people have an opinion that Bergesen (through past performance and tonight's performance) looks like a back-end starter or reliever. In fact, Craw posted on this thread that back-end is his potential but not where he thinks he ends up with BAL (because there will be five better pitchers eventually in the rotation). There is nothing crazy about any of that. It's actually quite measured.

Again, there is only one person using the word crazy. Maybe you are paranoid but you keep defending yourself as not crazy when on one has called you crazy. You assume that Bergesen was at the top of his game tonight. MAYBE he wasn't. Have you even considered the possibility that he usually has BETTER command of his slider. I'm not discounting the possibility either way.

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Again, there is only one person using the word crazy. Maybe you are paranoid but you keep defending yourself as not crazy when on one has called you crazy. You assume that Bergesen was at the top of his game tonight. MAYBE he wasn't. Have you even considered the possibility that he usually has BETTER command of his slider. I'm not discounting the possibility either way.

Agree to disagree -- we'll see moving forward.

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He seems like a somewhat unfinished product that never needed to be finished to be successful in the minors.

I kinda want to see him sent back down to work on his slider - soon, before it's too late and he just ends up toiling about, never improving past placeholder status, and ultimately relinquishes his role to the arms coming up. I'm surprised they decided to start him with his limited repertoire to date - what exactly is the point of rushing this kid whatsoever in 2009, the year we're destined to suck anyway?

Stick to the plan, McPhail. Send him back down, bring Waters up and let him be the Ginnie pig.

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]I think this is a fine' date=' passionate argument from a fan's perspective.[/b'] I don't really see anything evaluative to help me make the jump from solid showings in AA to complete games at the ML-level. His stuff just doesn't translate to that right now, and I'm not sure how anyone watching him could look at what he does and consider him a potential front-end starter (which is what he'd be if he's leading teams in complete games).

This is so condescending, BTW.

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Agree to disagree -- we'll see moving forward.

Way not to answer the question.

Have you even considered the possibility that he usually has BETTER command of his slider?

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It's pretty awesome that a thread congratulating Bergesen on a fine debut for once out of one of our pitching prospects has turned into a back and forth argument over his potential. When there's a thread about "Project Bergesen's Potential", then have at it. I'm not a moderator and I don't have a problem with people sharing thoughts here and there but it's ridiculous that the general tenor of this thread is more of a negative discussion around what people think Bergesen can't be. I'm proud of you guys, keep it up!

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