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Liz working on a no hitter.

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Walks and inability to consistenly go deep into games...

Isn't that what we're asking about Cabrera and the rest of the rotation? Then Liz's so-called "problems" should be a perfect fit in Baltimore :D

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Walks and inability to consistenly go deep into games...He isn't exactly young for AA either.

I agree. I don't pencil him into the bullpen but I bet that's where his future is. Games like this certainly give me hope though.

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I guess going 6 innings (which he has done in 7 of his last 11 starts, and an out away from 8 of 11) isn't deep enough.

In AA, he isn't even averaging 5 2/3 IP per start.

Of course I'm wrong though, since I don't agree with you.

Have no idea what this means.

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In AA, he isn't even averaging 5 2/3 IP per start.

I agree on the walks, but I don't see any problem with him going deep into games (if he keeps his walks down).

For the past 2.5 months, he has consistently been pitching into the 7th/8th innings. Then add in reports that he maintains his velocity and stuff deep into games and he doesn't noticeably tire, I don't see that being a problem at all. It all boils down to the walks. I still think, ultimately that he ends up in the bullpen, but I don't see a problem letting him first get a shot at being a starter.

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In his last 10 games, Liz has gone six innings five times and seven innings once. This all before tonight btw. Two other starts were five and five 2/3 innings. Once he got torched and didn't get out of the third, the other he went 4 2/3 innings. He had five strikeouts in his worst outing, and consistently had between 6-10 K's most of the time. He's lost once since June 20th.

Liz has made a LOT of progress since 2005 when he couldn't go more than three innings per start with the Shorebirds. He's 24 now and still developing, and may end up a reliever someday. But the way he's been rapidly getting better, to write him off as a starter yet is premature. He's showing a high ceiling.

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Liz has made a LOT of progress since 2005 when he couldn't go more than three innings per start with the Shorebirds. He's 24 now and still developing, and may end up a reliever someday. But the way he's been rapidly getting better, to write him off as a starter yet is premature. He's showing a high ceiling.

John could you clarify about the new pitch? I seem to recall reading somewhere within the past few months about him working on a new pitch (changeup?) though I could be thinking of someone else. Any idea if this is still true?

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I'll defer to Mike on that one. I remember he was a fastball/curveball guy at Delmarva. A slider now might ring a bell too, but I'm not sure.

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Liz relies heavily on his fastball though his next best pitch is his slider. He also uses a changeup which was spot on tonight. Usually, Liz just goes fastball/ slider and strays away from the changeup but the key to his success tonight was the fact that he used all of his pitches and mixed them up-- especially that changeup. When a guy like Liz can range from 97 MPH to 80 MPH, it's got to be one of the toughest tasks in all of sports to be able to make contact with those pitches.

More on Liz is on the way...

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Mike, am I right about the changeup being new, or has that always been there? It'd be an encouraging sign if that was a new pitch and he's already, apparently, gotten pretty good command of it.

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In AA, he isn't even averaging 5 2/3 IP per start.

Have no idea what this means.

Of course you do, you're just trying to make me look like an idiot. How else could you interpret that? You think everything other than your opinion is wrong, how much clearer can I get?

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Of course you do, you're just trying to make me look like an idiot. How else could you interpret that? You think everything other than your opinion is wrong, how much clearer can I get?

I think this is uncalled for. SG is definitely pretty rude when expressing his opinions at times, but he didn't do anything in this thread at all and you jumped on him out of nowhere.

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Now thank you. Between Roy Firestone starting a thread about Gomez, which has been hashed out here a million times already, and vab starting a hate Cabrera thread, who pitched shutout ball, at least we have something worthwhile.

If the Trax rumors are real, Liz should be the guy. With he, Reimold, and Hoey next year, we hopefully will have a nice injection of Oriole youth.

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Mike, am I right about the changeup being new, or has that always been there? It'd be an encouraging sign if that was a new pitch and he's already, apparently, gotten pretty good command of it.

Not entirely sure. I know he's had it this season at least and hasn't used it all that much. Usually he'll throw one or two and then defer heavily on his fastball since he knows that is his best pitch. Without a doubt, his command of the changeup on Tuesday was the best it's been all season. He keeps getting better.

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Any chance Liz is up in September? And if he does well along with Olson, does that make trading Cabrera in the offseason a priority?

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