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Orioles' 40 Man Roster 2009/2010 OffSeason Discussion

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Thanks for all of the effort. Great thread.

It's a good problem to have when you have to consider what talented guys to actually protect. We're not used to this. Next year will be even harder.

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I know most wouldn't consider it a huge loss, but I would be a bit upset if Miller never plays another game for the O's and is just let go at the end of the year.

He did pretty well after being recalled last season, was impressive in spring training before getting hurt and has been an all-star closer in AAA this year.

I'm hoping he's given another shot with the big league team.

Would you rather protect Miller then Hill?

I would think the Hill, Fio, Miller and Lebron are at the fringes on this years Rule 5 draft. The O's could protect any two.

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Would you rather protect Miller then Hill?

I would think the Hill, Fio, Miller and Lebron are at the fringes on this years Rule 5 draft. The O's could protect any two.

I could see the Orioles protecting none of the four of them.

If the Orioles can figure out how to get Pie at-bats and keep him on this team, then Fiorentino will not be needed and he won't be protected. I am going to stay on the side that says Hill and Miller are bumped from the roster. I doubt they protect Lebron at this juncture. Because they are all fringe guys, I dont see MacPhail using roster spots on them.

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I could see the Orioles protecting none of the four of them.

If the Orioles can figure out how to get Pie at-bats and keep him on this team, then Fiorentino will not be needed and he won't be protected. I am going to stay on the side that says Hill and Miller are bumped from the roster. I doubt they protect Lebron at this juncture. Because they are all fringe guys, I dont see MacPhail using roster spots on them.

There is no real advantage I can think of to go into the Rule 5 draft with less then 39 on the roster. Can think on a reason to save less then 39? They can always waive someone after the draft if they need space.

Also, I thought that MacPhail's comment that Snyder will be at 1B next was fairly telling. He could have said that Snyder can really hit, he will probably to part of the team next year but he didn't. He endorsed him as a 1B which means he thinks his defense is good enough to hold down the position. That has been a concern of mind. So if Snyder is protected to be the 1B then Huff may not be back because he would cost too much to offer arbitration and probably does not need to be protected. The O's will probably add a short term 1B at some point. Maybe after the draft. I think this was along your line of thinking.

Thirdly, we are supposed to know the PTBNL for Zaun on Monday. He could be a guy that needs to be protected.

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While in the shower, can you tell I obsess about this stuff, I had 3 names come to my mind. Albers, Moller, and Meredith.

With Zaun gone, there is no longer a question of will the Orioles have 4 or 5 free agents. Moeller will be a free agent so the Orioles will have 5 roster spots to play with.

Albers has been pitching poor recently and is now in the same boat as Sarfate and Bass, he has no options remaining.

Meredith has been decent for the Orioles since his acquisition but he is arbitration eligible. MacPhail might keep him this year but with the depth of relievers, there shouldnt be a reason to keep relievers who are arbitration eligible unless they are lights out.

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If Scott is traded then Montanez might be a decent DH.

Not a chance this happens. Montanez might hit for average but I'd be beyond surprised if he sniffs .800 as a full-time DH.

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There is no real advantage I can think of to go into the Rule 5 draft with less then 39 on the roster. Can think on a reason to save less then 39? They can always waive someone after the draft if they need space.

Thirdly, we are supposed to know the PTBNL for Zaun on Monday. He could be a guy that needs to be protected.

The PTBNL is a good point. It could be someone who needs protecting.

Looking back at 2008, the Orioles removed Adam Loewen, Randor Bierd, Rocky Cherry, Brandon Fahey, Jeff Fiorentino, and Omir Santos right after the season. They had to activate Albers, Baez, Patton, Ray, and Hoey from the 60 man roster. They later sent Castillo outright to Norfolk, while adding Reimold, Bergesen, Spoone, Hernandez, and Perez at the deadline. Let's not forget that Kevin Millar, Juan Castro, and Alex Cintron left as free agents. The Orioles then removed Deza and Quiroz from the roster days before the Rule 5 draft. The Orioles removed 12 players from the roster while adding 10. The Orioles went in to the 2008 Rule 5 draft with a 38 spot filled 40 man roster.

Regarding the 39 +/- 1 idea, there are several reasons why teams could want less on the roster. The players that are removed from the roster just aren't that good, or are fringe players, or are out of options and the Orioles know they wont make the team in the spring. The Orioles removed Deza/Quiroz days before to give them 2 open spots on the roster, so they could either select 2 players in the Rule 5 or have spots open for free agents. Mind you, the Rule 5 draft does occur right in the middle of the off-season so players are in free agency at this point. Of course, you raise the good point that the Orioles could very easily keep Hill on the roster through the Rule 5, but say they want to sign a player, they can just DFA him when the FA is signed.

In this situation, Hill probably falls into the category of a player they know wont make the team in ST, so they are just going to get him off the roster at the end of the season, when a lot of teams are cleaning their roster and very few waiver claims are being made. Mind you, the reason there isnt much waiver claims going on is because the rosters are full when the teams have to bring their players off the 60 Day DL. Last year, all 5 of the Orioles 60 Day players went back on the 40 man, where as this year our only 60 Day DL'er is going to be off the roster completely on the first day of the DL.

Another idea to keep in mind is that you dont want to use up player's options if you know they dont have a chance to contribute to the team in 2010. This is an argument for why Lebron wouldn't be protected. The Orioles know that Jake Arrieta will be called up in 2010, so lets not put someone on the roster for the sake of putting them on the roster when they could very well be on the cusp of being removed if a spot is needed.

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Starters

1. Bergy - 24

2. Hernandez - 24

3. Guthrie - 31

4. Tillman - 21/22

5. Matusz - 23

Relievers

6. J Johnson - 26

7. Albers - 27

8. Uehara - 35

9. Mickolio - 25 - has options

10. Meredith -26 - has options

11. Hendrickson - 35 - re-signed

12. Berken - 26 - has options

Additional pitchers

13. Ray - 28 -has options

14. Bass - 28 - who may be traded but probably not by the Rule 5 draft

15. Sarfate - 29 - who may be traded but probably not by the Rule 5 draft

16. Perez - 25 - has options

17. Erbe - 22 - has options

18. Perrault - 27 - has options

19. S Johnson - 22 - has options

20. Spoone - 24 - has options

21. Liz - 26 - has options

22. Patton - 24 - has options

23. Hill - 30 - Will be on the DL on opening day/First one I would drop

Catchers

24. Wieters - 23

Outfielders

25. Markakis - 26

26. Jones - 24

27. Reimold - 26

28. Pie - 25

29. Montanez - 28 - has options

30. Fiorentino - 27 - Could be good in trade for a minor leaguer with options

1B

31. Snyder - 23 - has options

32. Hughes - 26 -has options

2B

33. Roberts- 32

34. Turner - 25 - has options

SS

35. Izturis - 30

36. Andino - 25/26

3B

37. Wigginton - 32

38. Bell - 22 - has options

DH

39. Scott

Exposed

Pauley - 26

Miller - 27/28

McCrory - 27

Waters - 29

Castillo - 34

Gathright - 28/29

Mora - 38 - FA

Moeller - 35

Baez - 32 - FA/Trade possible in August

Simon - 28

Does not need to be protected

Arrieta - 24 - has options

Britton - 22 - has options

Waring - 24 - has options

Added Perrault. CrazySilver makes a good argument. He does have options, doesn't he?

I subtracted Huff and add Hughes. If you have a 25 year old 1B with a 900 OPS at AAA and no established first baseman I think he has to be protected.

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I subtracted Huff and add Hughes. If you have a 25 year old 1B with a 900 OPS at AAA and no established first baseman I think he has to be protected.

I can get behind this. Hughes will be protected, so then at least 7 players will be added to the 40 man roster this offseason, that is if neither Snyder nor Hughes are added in September.

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Ryan Adams might find himself protected this offseason.

I am starting to sway in the position that he will be protected.

In August, Adams has a line of .372/.449/.465/.914.

I am thinking now that Adams and Hughes will be protected but Fiorentino definitely wont be now.

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I am starting to sway in the position that he will be protected.

In August, Adams has a line of .372/.449/.465/.914.

I am thinking now that Adams and Hughes will be protected but Fiorentino definitely wont be now.

If I dropped someone to add Adams it would probably be Hill.

However, I am not ready to make that move yet. I will wait until closer to the end of the minor league season.

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Ages as of start of 2010 season

Starters

1. Bergy - 24

2. Hernandez - 24

3. Guthrie - 31

4. Tillman - 21/22

5. Matusz - 23

Relievers

6. J Johnson - 26

7. Mickolio - 25 - has options

8. Uehara - 35

9. Hendrickson - 35 - re-signed

10. Bass - 28 - who may be traded but probably not by the Rule 5 draft

11. Albers - 27 - who may be traded but probably not by the Rule 5 draft

12. Lambert - 27 - has options

Additional pitchers

13. Ray - 28 -has options

14. Berken - 26 - has options

15. Sarfate - 29 - who may be traded but probably not by the Rule 5 draft

16. Meredith -26 - has options

17. Perez - 25 - has options

18. Erbe - 22 - has options

19. Perrault - 27 - has options

20. S Johnson - 22 - has options

21. Spoone - 24 - has options

22. Liz - 26 - has options

23. Patton - 24 - has options

Catchers

24. Wieters - 23

Outfielders

25. Markakis - 26

26. Jones - 24

27. Reimold - 26

28. Pie - 25

29. Montanez - 28 - has options

30. Fiorentino - 27 - Could be good in trade for a minor leaguer with options

1B

31. Scott - 31

32. Snyder - 23 - has options

33. Hughes - 26 -has options

2B

34. Roberts- 32

35. Turner - 25 - has options

SS

36. Izturis - 30

37. Andino - 25/26

3B

38. Wigginton - 32

39. Bell - 22 - has options

Exposed

Pauley - 26

Miller - 27/28

McCrory - 27

Waters - 29

Castillo - 34

Gathright - 28/29

Mora - 38 - FA

Moeller - 35

Baez - 32 - FA/Trade possible in August

Simon - 28

Hill - 30

Does not need to be protected

Arrieta - 24 - has options

Britton - 22 - has options

Waring - 24 - has options

Added Lambert. Subtracted Hill. O's may sign Hill to a minor league contract.

Lebron, Miller and Adams under consideration. Waiting till the end of the minor league season.

Edited by wildcard

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Why is there a 0% chance the Orioles add Alfredo Simon to their minor league system? They discovered him and seemed to like him before he got injured.

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Why is there a 0% chance the Orioles add Alfredo Simon to their minor league system? They discovered him and seemed to like him before he got injured.

The Orioles re-discovered him. He had time with the Phillies and Rangers before he left American baseball. I say there is 0% chance he returns to the Orioles because he will be rehabbing all of next year from TJ surgery. They could sign him to a minor league deal but he would have to be stored at Bowie, or even Frederick. The Orioles have enough arms that they shouldnt count on Simon. Yes, they liked him, but then he got injured. For his own sake, he should find another team that can give him a shot.

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