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TheBandit

Joe Jordan's Hitters

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Nice breakdown Bandit.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

How would you guys rank this years hitters prospect wise?

Lets see what everyone thinks!

Tyler Townsend probably has the most potential for an impact player from the college players. I'm not up to speed on the high school guys to take a stab there at what we might be able to expect. Townsend has a pretty impressive resume from college.

Mike Flacco, despite the last name hype, could really take off with a solid year next year. From his numbers and the things I have read, he really seems to have a nice combination of speed and power. The Orioles still aren't sure what side of the infield he will man, but it leaves his options open.

The one guy I think we will only get organizational return out of is Michael Mooney. He seems to have a real nice glove, but that seems to be all he has. Without speed, he's more of a David Eckstein with the high contact no power approach at the plate, and I can't see him getting playing time over Tyler Kelly, Garabez Rosa, LJ Hoes, etc.

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A conversation had begun to stem in another thread about Joe Jordan's hitters from this year's draft, so I felt it was better served to bring it to the forum as its own thread for better discussion.

Out of the 50 rounds, only 19 of them were used for position players.

Out of the 19 selected, only 12 of them signed (Devin Harris the only one inside the top 25 that didn't sign)

Jordan has 12 hitters that he selected in the draft that signed.

2 - Catchers

1 - 1B

1 - 2B

2 - SS

1 - 3B

5 - OF

C - Justin Dalles - .212/.255/.263 in 40 G, 8 2B, 16 RBI, 29% CS

He batted .324 with 15 HR, 47 RBI, 7 2B at South Carolina. The 8 doubles shows some gap power and that he'll need more strength to translate that into HR's professionally.

C- Michael Ohlman - .500/.500/.750 in 2 G, 1 2B, 1 RBI, 1 SB, 50% CS

High schooler I know a lot of people were clamoring for us to sign. Small sample size to judge.

1B - Tyler Townsend - .129/.211/.247 in 22 G, 4 2B, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 1 SB

Batted .434 at Florida International with 24 HR, 77 RBI, 16 2B. He has legitimate power, but he had a wrist injury not long after he started playing. I'm not judging much from this year since a wrist injury, even minor ones, seem to take people's offensive games away from them.

2B/3B - Tyler Kelly - .274/.364/.326 in 52 G, 5 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 16 RBI, 3 SB

Batted .307 at UC Davis with 4 HR, 40 RBI, and 20 2B. He's been splitting time between 3rd and 2nd (33 to 14) and has walked more than he has struck out (28 to 24).

SS - Mychal Givens - yet to play

He won't play until next year in a game, but we'll all be watching him.

SS - Michael Mooney - .219/.305/.301 in 39 G, 5 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 1 SB

Batted .306 at Florida with 2 HR, 24 RBI, and 6 2B. He's never displayed much speed and he has been splitting time between 2nd and SS (31 to 12). His light hitting mold is coupled with solid defense as he's only commited 1 error at 2nd in 136 chances.

3B/1B - Mike Flacco - .269/.323/.420 in 56 G, 13 2B, 5 3B, 3 HR, 32 RBI, 6 SB

Batted .399 at Catonsville with 14 HR and 51 RBI. A little older for a JuCo player but that's due to his back injury a few years ago. He's displaying a lot of XBH power with a respectable average. He's splitting time between first and 3rd (31 to 23).

OF - Steve Bumbry - .233/.358/.379 in 36 G, 6 2B, 3 3B, 1 HR, 9 RBI, 5 SB

Batted .283 at Virginia Tech with 10 HR and 40 RBI. He started off in a terrible slump and spent some time on the DL. He has since started to adjust to minor league pitching and is batting .257 in his past 10 games.

OF - Kipp Schutz - .256/.348/.322 in 36 G, 5 2B, 1 HR, 14 RBI, 2 SB

Batted .392 at Indiana with 5 HR and 34 RBI. He's a contact guy that hits for average without much speed.

OF - Michael Planeta - .298/.329/.415 in 55 G, 11 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 26 RBI, 6 SB

Batted .332 at CC Glendale of Arizona with 18 2B, 10 3B, 41 RBI, and 1 HR. He stole 4 bases as well.

OF - Kyle Hoppy - played 1 game and did not reach base

The 3rd positional high schooler taken by the O's. He hit .551 with eight home runs and 34 RBIs in his senior season for Orchard Park High.

OF - Brenden Webb - .182/.357/.242 in 10 G, 2 2B, 1 RBI

Batted .342 at Palomar CC with 8 HR and 40 RBI.

While he is not a drafted offensive player, I feel I should include him since he is doing so well as a non-drafted free agent.

1B - David Anderson - .279/.394/.448 in 47 G, 11 2B, 3 3B, 4 HR, 34 RBI

He batted .377 at Coastal Carolina with 21 HR and 82 RBI. He has walked more than he has struck out (32 to 28) and has spent all his time in the field at first.

Overall, some of the top picks are not hitting for as much average as expected, but with the small sample size and kids playing over a 100 games for the first time in their careers that can be expected. Kelly, Anderson, and Planeta have been the best offensive performers so far with a little left in the season. It's not time to judge any of these draftees, but there are definitely encouraging signs.

I'm not at all worried about Townsend, and I expect him to have a solid season next year. Along with the rest of the power hitting prospects, they will have the winter to bulk up and condition for a full season of wooden bats which will give us a much better reading on where they are.

I'm pretty happy with what I see, and I hopeful of their continued growth.

:skeletor:

Nice run down, the only thing that I do not agree with is your take on Brenden Webb. He was drafted as an offensive player, he is supposed to have a high ceiling and has a very good eye at the plate and can hit. Of all of our offensive players, in order of offensive ceiling, he ranks towards the top. Id go Ohlman, Webb, Townsend, Hoppy. Dont underestimate him!

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Nice run down, the only thing that I do not agree with is your take on Brenden Webb. He was drafted as an offensive player, he is supposed to have a high ceiling and has a very good eye at the plate and can hit. Of all of our offensive players, in order of offensive ceiling, he ranks towards the top. Id go Ohlman, Webb, Townsend, Hoppy. Dont underestimate him!

See, this is a formatting error.

I was referring to you David Anderson being a non-drafted free agent. I was not talking about Brenden.

Sorry for the confusion. I made an adjustment to prevent this.

Edited by TheBandit

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See, this is a formatting error.

I was referring to you David Anderson being a non-drafted free agent. I was not talking about Brenden.

Sorry for the confusion. I made an adjustment to prevent this.

Ahhh, I see now, if Iw ould have processed in my mind the undrafted FA part, I woulda put 2 and 2 together, I see what you are sying now....

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I can understand being high on these guys as a group given what we knew about them on draft day. I can understand taking their minor league statistics from this season with a grain of salt based on sample sizes or injury issues.

But I can't understand anyone feeling good about these guys based on how they have performed in the minor leagues so far. The only hitter from the 2009 class whose performance to date is at all encouraging is Tyler Kelly, and even with him you have to wonder how far he'll be able to go without much apparent speed or power. Tyler Townsend and Justin Dalles have been awful at Aberdeen, just awful. The guys at Bluefield (Flacco, Planeta, et. al) are old for their level and aren't exactly tearing it up, although to be fair we shouldn't expect much from that group given where they were drafted.

The silver lining is that this group might look a lot better a year from now--hopefully Townsend will be over his wrist injury and we'll have some encouraging performances from Givens, Ohlman and some others who signed late.

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I can understand being high on these guys as a group given what we knew about them on draft day. I can understand taking their minor league statistics from this season with a grain of salt based on sample sizes or injury issues.

But I can't understand anyone feeling good about these guys based on how they have performed in the minor leagues so far. The only hitter from the 2009 class whose performance to date is at all encouraging is Tyler Kelly, and even with him you have to wonder how far he'll be able to go without much apparent speed or power. Tyler Townsend and Justin Dalles have been awful at Aberdeen, just awful. The guys at Bluefield (Flacco, Planeta, et. al) are old for their level and aren't exactly tearing it up, although to be fair we shouldn't expect much from that group given where they were drafted.

The silver lining is that this group might look a lot better a year from now--hopefully Townsend will be over his wrist injury and we'll have some encouraging performances from Givens, Ohlman and some others who signed late.

I agree completely. Not sure why TheBandit is trying so hard to put a rosy-colored spin on the hitters' performance so far, but objectively, there's really nothing to be excited about yet. Doesn't say too much about their long-term potential, and it should get better next year once the late signings are playing, but not sure why there's a need to try to distort their performances to date. Best thing you can say is that the guys got their feet wet in pro ball, know what they need to work on, and can come in next year ready to tear it up.

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I agree completely. Not sure why TheBandit is trying so hard to put a rosy-colored spin on the hitters' performance so far, but objectively, there's really nothing to be excited about yet. Doesn't say too much about their long-term potential, and it should get better next year once the late signings are playing, but not sure why there's a need to try to distort their performances to date. Best thing you can say is that the guys got their feet wet in pro ball, know what they need to work on, and can come in next year ready to tear it up.

I am not sugar coating anything. I simply put the numbers out there and threw in my 2 cents here and there. A lot of people on these boards were so quick to say how much these guys suck, were busts, or were disappointments. Three Run Homer did exactly that "Dalles has been awful. Townsend has been awful." I'll give you a good reason for both why you shouldn't care if their stats aren't there yet.

Dalles - He started 51 games (played in 54) for South Carolina, then came to Aberdeen where he has started another 32 games at catcher (plus 11 at DH). It's probably that he's wearing down and the transition to wood bats hasn't helped either. He had a low amount of doubles (7) compared to his home runs (15) in college. I'd expect him to become a singles and doubles hitter in pro ball with the occasional dinger.

Townsend - As stated before, wrist injuries can rob players of entire seasons because they can't generate the same kind of bat speed.

Again, I'm happy with what I see, but I didn't say I was overly excited nor was I hyping the group. This was mainly just reporting, and I am waiting until next year to start judging their performances.

Here is a great post on the draftees this year:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87436

:skeletor:

Edited by TheBandit

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I can understand being high on these guys as a group given what we knew about them on draft day. I can understand taking their minor league statistics from this season with a grain of salt based on sample sizes or injury issues.

But I can't understand anyone feeling good about these guys based on how they have performed in the minor leagues so far. The only hitter from the 2009 class whose performance to date is at all encouraging is Tyler Kelly, and even with him you have to wonder how far he'll be able to go without much apparent speed or power. Tyler Townsend and Justin Dalles have been awful at Aberdeen, just awful. The guys at Bluefield (Flacco, Planeta, et. al) are old for their level and aren't exactly tearing it up, although to be fair we shouldn't expect much from that group given where they were drafted.

The silver lining is that this group might look a lot better a year from now--hopefully Townsend will be over his wrist injury and we'll have some encouraging performances from Givens, Ohlman and some others who signed late.

I agree completely. Not sure why TheBandit is trying so hard to put a rosy-colored spin on the hitters' performance so far, but objectively, there's really nothing to be excited about yet. Doesn't say too much about their long-term potential, and it should get better next year once the late signings are playing, but not sure why there's a need to try to distort their performances to date. Best thing you can say is that the guys got their feet wet in pro ball, know what they need to work on, and can come in next year ready to tear it up.

There is plenty to be excited about, just because the kids havent really performed fantasitcally as a whole yet, if you know anything about their upside and what some of these kids are capable of then youd be excited. I understand that there are 2 different types of people here who read ther drafft section, some of us who are interested in the scouting reports as much if not more than there performances, then there are others of us who judge players soley off of their performance. Everyone has their own way of looking at things, but I and apparently Bandit as well are interested in what these kids are capable of and realize that this small sample size thus far means next to nothing. I am disappointed in most of their performances, but it makes me no less excited about the players. I know that Townsend is supposed to be similar to Reimold offensively, and I cannot wait to start seeing that next year once he has a fresh start. I know that Brenden Webb is going to also be very exciting to watch. Yeah, maybe he is hitting in the .175 range right now, but he has also been walking a ton and has excellent tools and will also be exciting to watch. If you are ready to write these kids off because they are having a bad transition to pro ball, then you are entitled to your opinion, but its wise to take all angles into consideration.

And I do not believe Bandit was trynig to sugar coat anything, he is genuinely excited about the players we picked up and is looking for any positives about each player's scenario. Hes reinforcing what we know the kids are capable of, you can ignore all of their ceilings right now and their potential as well because they are performing poorly, but dont be surprised when next season they shwo their true colors. Let them transition to proball before making such judgements on them in such a small sample size.....

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I know that Townsend is supposed to be similar to Reimold offensively, and I cannot wait to start seeing that next year once he has a fresh start. I know that Brenden Webb is going to also be very exciting to watch. Yeah, maybe he is hitting in the .175 range right now, but he has also been walking a ton and has excellent tools and will also be exciting to watch. If you are ready to write these kids off because they are having a bad transition to pro ball, then you are entitled to your opinion, but its wise to take all angles into consideration.

I remember in not too distant past that people gave up on Reimold because he was injured to much and too much a "hot and cold" streak hitter. I remember people complaining about Matusz in his first couple of starts because his numbers didn't match the hype. I also remember reading many of players are advised to work on certain aspects of their game to be able to move up to the next level. Often when you work on a weakness it affects other aspects of your game until you start to improve the weakness. I am excited to get some hitters into the system, but even more excited on the number of arms. People cannot expect Wieters type of numbers in the minors right out of the draft, that is the outlier not the mean.

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I remember in not too distant past that people gave up on Reimold because he was injured to much and too much a "hot and cold" streak hitter. I remember people complaining about Matusz in his first couple of starts because his numbers didn't match the hype. I also remember reading many of players are advised to work on certain aspects of their game to be able to move up to the next level. Often when you work on a weakness it affects other aspects of your game until you start to improve the weakness. I am excited to get some hitters into the system, but even more excited on the number of arms. People cannot expect Wieters type of numbers in the minors right out of the draft, that is the outlier not the mean.

Yup, people had given up on Reimold. In honesty, he probably should have landed on top 100 lists more than he did, but once a prospect gets injured, if hes not a top prospect, hes nearly forgotten about amongst the prospect scene. You could probably go on for days about players who had rough debuts or rough first full seasons and came backto emerge as a good prospect. I can name a few off the top of my head, Zach Britton who had an ERA in the 5's in his pro debut, Snyder who dealt with injury and had I think 2 poor seasons with out going back and looking. It just happens, the transition to the pros is rough, but if you look at the big picture rather than the small one, you will see no need to panick every time a hitter is hitting .175 for his first 10 games of his career......

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I can understand being high on these guys as a group given what we knew about them on draft day. I can understand taking their minor league statistics from this season with a grain of salt based on sample sizes or injury issues.

But I can't understand anyone feeling good about these guys based on how they have performed in the minor leagues so far. The only hitter from the 2009 class whose performance to date is at all encouraging is Tyler Kelly, and even with him you have to wonder how far he'll be able to go without much apparent speed or power. Tyler Townsend and Justin Dalles have been awful at Aberdeen, just awful. The guys at Bluefield (Flacco, Planeta, et. al) are old for their level and aren't exactly tearing it up, although to be fair we shouldn't expect much from that group given where they were drafted.

The silver lining is that this group might look a lot better a year from now--hopefully Townsend will be over his wrist injury and we'll have some encouraging performances from Givens, Ohlman and some others who signed late.

Related to your statement, "The guys at Bluefield (Flacco, Planeta, et. al) are old for their level", Planeta is only 19, which is slightly younger than average for Advanced Rookie ball. Based on 2008, the last year for which complete data is available, the average age in the Appalachian League was 20.3. I saw him play 3 times this summer and believe he is one of our best position prospects in the lower minors. Gary Helmick, signed as a a non-drafted free agent out of Towson U. , also had one of the best seasons at Bluefield.

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Here's how it works, in generalities at least...

If you sign quick and go to short season teams:

Advanced HS guys will go to Bluefield, but could just as easily go to GCL.

Normal or project HS guys will go to GCL.

Advanced college guys will go to Aberdeen.

Normal or project college guys will go to Bluefield.

The short season is not worth trying to factor in all the variables to try to grade them too much, so you re-evaluate the next spring. Some guys will produce way over their head, some will underperform, and it could be completely 180 degrees the next spring.

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