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I have to say that I can kind of see what elextranOs is saying here, but purely in regards to the headbutt itself.

In the context of the game and Zizou's career and all that, it was horrific. But taken on it's own as a headbutt, damn was it sweet. Definitely one of the best headbutts of all time. He absolutely hammered the guy.

Yes, thank you, Yuds (and Happy Birthday!), you've helped me articulate my thoughts on the matter. Basically, the "beauty" which I commented consists of two parts:

1) "But taken on it's own as a headbutt, damn was it sweet. Definitely one of the best headbutts of all time. He absolutely hammered the guy." - As written so capably by Yuds.

2) The fact that it was such an utterly human moment. Moments when athletes, who are treated, to some extent, as almost super-human, act out in a way that exhibits normal human over-reaction and flaw always make me sympathize more with them. Well, almost always.

Yes, 2 contradicts several of my previous posts to some degree. I make no excuse for this: I felt what I felt and it took a while to figure out what triggered that feeling. Also, I'm a flawed human being who contradicts himself from time to time :D

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1) "But taken on it's own as a headbutt, damn was it sweet. Definitely one of the best headbutts of all time. He absolutely hammered the guy." - As written so capably by Yuds.

2) The fact that it was such an utterly human moment. Moments when athletes, who are treated, to some extent, as almost super-human, act out in a way that exhibits normal human over-reaction and flaw always make me sympathize more with them. Well, almost always.

Yes, 2 contradicts several of my previous posts to some degree. I make no excuse for this: I felt what I felt and it took a while to figure out what triggered that feeling. Also, I'm a flawed human being who contradicts himself from time to time :D

I'm with you foriegner. I have to say I loved the headbutt for a couple reasons. After US and Argentina lost, I had no rooting interest, I hate the French and Italian teams. As a result I just wanted to see good futbol, Zizou hurting France means nothing to me.

As a lacrosse player, I'm used to a much more violent sport filled with tougher people. So when I see the Italians flop, act, flop, flop, and then flop a little more for good measure, then get carried off in a stretcher, only to miraculously recover to full strength in a matter of seconds, I become enraged. I literally want to strangle babies. I would love to see these guys take a cross check in the neck they didn't see coming, or get whacked by a 6 foot titanium pole where you're not wearing pads. Would the crying ever end?

So when Zidane finally delivered a legitimate blow to one of the whiny children, I was overjoyed. I felt like I was watching a real contact sport. Except in a real contact sport the recipient would have gotten right back up rather than leave his team a man down.

Now obviously you don't want to see one of the greats finish his career that way, but in the heat of the moment I was delighted.

By the way, here's the latest from ESPN: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373723&cc=5901

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I'm with you foriegner. I have to say I loved the headbutt for a couple reasons. After US and Argentina lost, I had no rooting interest, I hate the French and Italian teams. As a result I just wanted to see good futbol, Zizou hurting France means nothing to me.

As a lacrosse player, I'm used to a much more violent sport filled with tougher people. So when I see the Italians flop, act, flop, flop, and then flop a little more for good measure, then get carried off in a stretcher, only to miraculously recover to full strength in a matter of seconds, I become enraged. I literally want to strangle babies. I would love to see these guys take a cross check in the neck they didn't see coming, or get whacked by a 6 foot titanium pole where you're not wearing pads. Would the crying ever end?

So when Zidane finally delivered a legitimate blow to one of the whiny children, I was overjoyed. I felt like I was watching a real contact sport. Except in a real contact sport the recipient would have gotten right back up rather than leave his team a man down.

Now obviously you don't want to see one of the greats finish his career that way, but in the heat of the moment I was delighted.

This is a really bold claim. And one I think without much merit. The soccer players do this because they are trying to draw fouls, free kicks, cards against the other team. It's strategic. It's not some test of manhood.

Granted, it's really annoying and, IMO, hurts the game. And, in particular, really goes against American sensibilities. Heck, even soccer players are calling for this to change. But it doesn't mean these guys are pansies, especially when you consider the neighborhoods and bleak circumstances that a lot of these players grew up in.

I understand, and agree, with the sentiment that this is unsportsmanlike. But totally disagree with this idea that these guys are not as tough, strong-willed as other athletes.

The nature of the game allows for less violence. But it doesn't mean that if you stuck them on a lacrosse field they'd whimper away and cry foul. I'd put good money that if you gave Claude Makelele, Roy Keane, Patrick Vieria, Wayne Rooney, John Terry and countless others some practice they'd be wrecking some people on the Lacrosse field. And you'd probably think twice about considering them less tough.

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This is a really bold claim. And one I think without much merit. The soccer players do this because they are trying to draw fouls, free kicks, cards against the other team. It's strategic. It's not some test of manhood.

Granted, it's really annoying and, IMO, hurts the game. And, in particular, really goes against American sensibilities. Heck, even soccer players are calling for this to change. But it doesn't mean these guys are pansies, especially when you consider the neighborhoods and bleak circumstances that a lot of these players grew up in.

I understand, and agree, with the sentiment that this is unsportsmanlike. But totally disagree with this idea that these guys are not as tough, strong-willed as other athletes.

The nature of the game allows for less violence. But it doesn't mean that if you stuck them on a lacrosse field they'd whimper away and cry foul. I'd put good money that if you gave Claude Makelele, Roy Keane, Patrick Vieria, Wayne Rooney, John Terry and countless others some practice they'd be wrecking some people on the Lacrosse field. And you'd probably think twice about considering them less tough.

You're right that soccer players are extremely tough, and their motivation for acting has some legitimacy, it serves a purpose.

Now most of it is about the game itself, not the people playing it. The fact that you can help your team by acting makes lying on the ground potentially beneficial. If you layed down and whined when you got hit in lacrosse, you'd leave your team man down and your defense in an unsettled situation. No benefit whatsoever.

Due to the rule enforcement and contact allowed, lacrosse is simply a more demanding game when it comes to pain tolerance. It takes time to get used to the beating you take in a typical game, and play through it with the same intensity and focus. Its a high threshold that weeds out many. Are there plenty of soccer players who could step in right now and handle it, and even more than plenty had they grown up with lacrosse? Absolutely, but not all, not even close. I maintain that it is a higher required standard of toughness, and as a result the current body of lacrosse players are tougher than the current body of soccer players.

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Central defenders and central midfielders in soccer are some of the toughest, hardest, most brutal athletes you'll find in any sport. You can't see or feel it when you're watching a game on TV, but being muscled off the ball by a couple of those guys is not fun.

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Juergen Klinsmann isn't going to be coaching Germany any more. That's too bad. I thought he did a pretty good job (although admittedly I don't know very much) and I wish he'd return, since I kind of adopted Germany as my team when the US went out. But it's his decision and I respect it. I guess. I'd just like to know why.

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Juergen Klinsmann isn't going to be coaching Germany any more. That's too bad. I thought he did a pretty good job (although admittedly I don't know very much) and I wish he'd return, since I kind of adopted Germany as my team when the US went out. But it's his decision and I respect it. I guess. I'd just like to know why.

The US needs to be all over this.

He lives here. Not nearly as much pressure. We've got some decent young players moving up...

Plus, if Adu is seriously considering playing for Ghana, Klinsmann could be a real attractive coach for him to work with.

Throw him oodles of cash and let him work.

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The US needs to be all over this.

He lives here. Not nearly as much pressure. We've got some decent young players moving up...

Plus, if Adu is seriously considering playing for Ghana, Klinsmann could be a real attractive coach for him to work with.

Throw him oodles of cash and let him work.

The US have already made him an offer, although it would be sort of strange if he would accept an offer from the US as he stated that he quit because of the burn out syndrome.

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