Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Elbren

Knott DFA'd?

Recommended Posts

You are arguning MY POINT! WHY is he here??? Why is he here now?

2 questions for you to answer:

1. Should Bako be on the 40 man over Knott?

2. Should Bako be on the 40 man over Jimenez?

Great let's call Jimenez up so we can sit Millar and Huff who are both under contract next year. You bring up guys only if they play into your future plans.

Bako being on the 40 man roster over Jimenez means exactly what? You act like it means Bako is a part of the future he isn't.

Knott has nothing to do with Bako. Knott was judged not to be good enough. Do you honestly think that if the Orioles thought Knott had a future here they would let Paul Bako stand in the way? If you want to be mad over Knott being let go fine, but don't act like it was a Bako or Knott decision. Releasing a player because it makes you feel better acomplishes nothing. Maybe he is here because the team sees no point in releasing a 10 year veteran who has struggled just for the sake of doing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After Nick Markakis the O's outfielders have hit eight homers (Patterson), five (Payton), six (Gibbons), and no one else has more than two. I'd be willing to bet that if you'd put Gibbons, Patterson, Payton, Bynum, and Tike Redman in Norfolk's pitcher's haven and gave them 288 at bats not a one of them would have hit 13 homers.

In fact, ol' Tike had 296 at bats in Norfolk this year and knocked a grand total of two balls out of the park. That's one fewer than Sebastien Boucher had at the Tides game I saw a few weeks ago.

No one is saying Jon Knott is a savior. We're just saying that he's a better hitter than any Oriole outfielder who hasn't played on the Greek Olympic baseball team.

I never said that those guys would of hit more homers-except IMO Gibbons- at Norfolk, they wouldn't because they are not home run hitters. I fully understand Norfolk is a pitchers park. Why is it that being a better player automatically means you have to hit more home runs? Corey Patterson is a better all around player than Knott and so he is a healthy Jay Gibbons. This isn't a slow pitch softball team here. Defense does matter. Unless you are getting rid of Huff defense should matter. If the Orioles would of called up Knott and he would of got 80 at bats in September and they still would of released him would it of made anyone feel better? I fully expect the Orioles to make a significant improvement next year in LF, and if they don't I will be the first person to rip them. If I am coming across as defending this organization I am not. Maybe you are right and Knott would of helped, I personally want to see a bigger improvement. It is up to MacPhail now. If they patch together another LF like this year than the argument about giving Knott a chance has alot more merit. I expect much more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You act like it means Bako is a part of the future he isn't.

That's MY point, that's my whole point.

Knott has nothing to do with Bako.

Of course he does, there are 40 spaces to give out...just as Santos has nothing to do with Knott? He does now....

Releasing a player because it makes you feel better acomplishes nothing. Maybe he is here because the team sees no point in releasing a 10 year veteran who has struggled just for the sake of doing it.

Not to make me feel better, to make the team better! To have Knott under control next year in case he comes back healthy and is gonna hit 28 homers for SOMEONE.

EVERY move we make now should be about having the best 40 men in 2008 that we can.

Re: Jimenez, it's not just about calling him up (to reward him for a GREAT season) but about having control over him next year. It's called forward thinking and it is how a good business succeeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This isn't a slow pitch softball team here. Defense does matter. Unless you are getting rid of Huff defense should matter.

Here's the problem: you and the Orioles don't think offense matters. They've tried it your way all year. They've played Jay Payton, 30th-best-hitting left fielder in the majors, to get his glove in the lineup. They've played Corey Patterson through one of the more horrific slumps I've ever seen because of his glove. Now they're playing Tike Redman almost every day for his glove despite a long track record of being nearly as bad a hitter as Jay Payton is this year.

And you know what? It ain't working. Despite this emphasis on defense they're allowing runs by the bushel basket, and they're hemorrhaging losses. Maybe putting some bats in the lineup might change things. At least it wouldn't be doing the same thing that's failed and expecting different results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's the problem: you and the Orioles don't think offense matters. They've tried it your way all year. They've played Jay Payton, 30th-best-hitting left fielder in the majors, to get his glove in the lineup. They've played Corey Patterson through one of the more horrific slumps I've ever seen because of his glove. Now they're playing Tike Redman almost every day for his glove despite a long track record of being nearly as bad a hitter as Jay Payton is this year.

And you know what? It ain't working. Despite this emphasis on defense they're allowing runs by the bushel basket, and they're hemorrhaging losses. Maybe putting some bats in the lineup might change things. At least it wouldn't be doing the same thing that's failed and expecting different results.

You are right, the Orioles and me do not value offense. If Jon Knott is Ryan Howard he would be here, he isn't. You look at the complete player not just whether or not he can hit homers. Corey Patterson is a good defensive CF that is why he plays. It ain't working because the whole team isn't good enough. A Benny Ayala type player is going to have what impact on this team? If Knott was a middle of the order type hitter he would already be in the majors. I certainly hope Jay Payton isn't our fulltime LF next year, and I don't think he will be.

You also can't defense walks, I guess that is the fault of the defense. Bringing up that the team is allowing alot of runs lately has nothing to do with our defense. This group of pitchers are AAA quality. Alot of the runs being given up are by pitchers who will not be here next year due to not being good enough or not being ready. The Yankees wouldn't be close to a .500 team with the pitching we have had the last 3 weeks.The question is, is a given players offense good enough to warrrant playing with a poor glove. If teams thought he was that great of an offensive player he would already be in the big leagues, maybe they are all wrong but maybe they are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are right, the Orioles and me do not value offense. If Jon Knott is Ryan Howard he would be here, he isn't. You look at the complete player not just whether or not he can hit homers.

He wouldn't need to be Ryan Howard. The offense that Knott would have given this team would more than have made up for the defense they'd of lost having him out there instead of someone like Payton. But because this team overvalues defense we do what we do and get the results we deserve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's MY point, that's my whole point.

Of course he does, there are 40 spaces to give out...just as Santos has nothing to do with Knott? He does now....

Not to make me feel better, to make the team better! To have Knott under control next year in case he comes back healthy and is gonna hit 28 homers for SOMEONE.

EVERY move we make now should be about having the best 40 men in 2008 that we can.

Re: Jimenez, it's not just about calling him up (to reward him for a GREAT season) but about having control over him next year. It's called forward thinking and it is how a good business succeeds.

The moves they are making now are foward thinking, you just do not agree with them. Knott might be hitting 28 homers for a AAA team next year. When we add players this offseason and we will, will players be coming off of the 40 man roster?, yes they will. Knott is not in their plans and that bothers you. If Knott is not in their plans why call him up? You and I have no earthly idea what the Orioles opening day roster will be for 2008. I am sure that MacPhail wants the best 40 man for next year as well. Give the team a damn chance to see what they do for next year. Don't blame MacPhail for the faults of the past. He deserves an opportunity to see what he can do. They didn't hire some bozo here, the man has been in this business his whole life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He wouldn't need to be Ryan Howard. The offense that Knott would have given this team would more than have made up for the defense they'd of lost having him out there instead of someone like Payton. But because this team overvalues defense we do what we do and get the results we deserve.

Payton is no more a part of this franchises future than Knott is. If they improve in LF next year then what will people say. Have you even seen Knott play defense? We get the results we deserve because we haven't played a player that no other team deems MLB worthy? A good bullpen would of made a world of difference on this team, not Jon Knott.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to make me feel better, to make the team better! To have Knott under control next year in case he comes back healthy and is gonna hit 28 homers for SOMEONE.

What, in AA ball? Atlantic League?

I doubt Knott hits 28 homers in the majors, ever.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Payton is no more a part of this franchises future than Knott is. If they improve in LF next year then what will people say. Have you even seen Knott play defense? We get the results we deserve because we haven't played a player that no other team deems MLB worthy? A good bullpen would of made a world of difference on this team, not Jon Knott.

He's been in one other organization - San Diego - and they have no DH and they had a corner OF and 1b on the MLB roster that were decent hitters. He wasn't a better option than whom they had, he is a better option than whom we have but since we undervalue offense we'll waste those ABs on a guy like Payton instead. Knott made a huge mistake signing w/Baltimore - in another organization that is weak at LF or 1b or DH he might have gotten a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why oh why? What's soo moronic about this is the depth issue. I assume Torres and Stern are kept around for depth at SS and CF. With other options to cut from the 40 man, I will not pass judgement on it as far as DFA'ing Knott goes. I am willing to say that Santos is probably worth giving a try. In LF there isn't enough depth in the organization to field an average MLB player, but the FO cuts their strongest backup down the depth chart (and potentially strongest player in the organization for LF.) Meanwhile, the O's may have the most depth in the catcher position of any team in MLB: Hernadez, House, Bako, Molina, Wieters.(Not sure if Bako should be 3rd or 4th.) House hasn't embarassed himself, why keep Bako for another 20ish games? Losing a cheap player under the O's control for another year that may be able to contribute next year vs. keeping Bako for another 20 games is utterly ridiculous.

Whether Knott is the next Jack Cust or has a career ending injury in spring training next year, it makes no sense to lose him to keep Bako.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If people don't understand the problem with DFA'ing Knott in a season like this then there is a lot they need to learn about baseball and building for the future.

It amazes me people are still making this out to not be a big deal. Maybe it isn't in the long run, but right now it means everything. The Orioles should be making the small decisions to get better and they can't even do that right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If people don't understand the problem with DFA'ing Knott in a season like this then there is a lot they need to learn about baseball and building for the future.

It amazes me people are still making this out to not be a big deal. Maybe it isn't in the long run, but right now it means everything. The Orioles should be making the small decisions to get better and they can't even do that right.

I understand the sport of baseball just fine. You don't build for the future with 29 year old AAA talent. It amazes me people like you are making it out to be a big deal. Let's just move on and agree to disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If people don't understand the problem with DFA'ing Knott in a season like this then there is a lot they need to learn about baseball and building for the future.

It amazes me people are still making this out to not be a big deal. Maybe it isn't in the long run, but right now it means everything. The Orioles should be making the small decisions to get better and they can't even do that right.

The long run is what matters. I don't think Knott makes us better now OR in the long run. It's not a big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The moves they are making now are foward thinking, you just do not agree with them. Knott might be hitting 28 homers for a AAA team next year. When we add players this offseason and we will, will players be coming off of the 40 man roster?, yes they will. Knott is not in their plans and that bothers you. If Knott is not in their plans why call him up? You and I have no earthly idea what the Orioles opening day roster will be for 2008. I am sure that MacPhail wants the best 40 man for next year as well. Give the team a damn chance to see what they do for next year. Don't blame MacPhail for the faults of the past. He deserves an opportunity to see what he can do. They didn't hire some bozo here, the man has been in this business his whole life.

Not only do I tend to agree with Geschinger and Drungo regarding the relative value of a player like Knott, and the value of Knott in particular, I disagree with the sentiment expressed here.

We see the Orioles front office make another questionable roster move where a hitter with possible upside (and Drungo explained how he's gotten to be 29 without a ML opportunity) was discarded for an absolutely pedestrian reliever.

But we're being asked to ignore this and other roster concerns under MacPhail's watch (Bako, Molina, Fahey, Hernandez, Redman, Payton, and Bynum all at the same time? Really?) because he's been around the baseball block before. After 10 years of this type of decision making, and Andy's apparent agreement with it, I'll give the benefit of the doubt when he has this miraculous offseason. At this point, in my mind, I still see this move as a mistake.

I know I'm not convincing anyone, just like I truly doubt I'd be swayed at this time. Agreeing to disagree, and all that. Carry on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2020 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2020 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • I find this hard to answer today.  As we are still living one today, I know there is a bias towards this current Davis blunder.   But both will clearly go down as some of the worst moves around.    
    • Thinking about it a little more: The Orioles were not good when they traded for Glenn Davis.  They were coming off a 76 win 1990 season but there was some reason for optimism.  1989 had been great and with Ben McDonald and Mussina in the wings, there was some young talent to look forward to.  If they don't trade for Davis and keep Schilling, Finley and Harnisch, they might not be as bad in 1991.  And in 1992, they could have won more than the 89 games that they won.  The whole 1990s probably looks a lot different for this franchise, including the playoff years of 1996 and 1997. I'm 50/50 on this one, honestly.  I can see it both ways.
    • There's nothing stopping a team from not offering guaranteed contracts, other than the fact that the only players you would get are the guys no other team will offer a contract to.  Guaranteed contracts are a drop in the bucket to the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers.  They can afford the inevitable losses on some of those deals.  Teams like the Orioles and Rays can't afford those huge losses and have to be much more careful.  There's no way that the Yankees and the other rich teams will ever give up that competitive advantage and stop offering guaranteed contracts..
    • Well, yeah.  But as far as player personnel moves go.
    • That's a tough one.   But I think Glenn Davis
    • Thinking about this in @Sports Guy's choose one thread: There are two absolutely atrocious franchise altering deals that this franchise has made.  I'm probably missing another obvious one like the Eddie Murray deal.  While that deal was bad, I don't think it comes close to the Chris Davis contract and the Glenn Davis trade. The Orioles traded Curt Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley to the Astros for Glenn Davis before the 1991 season.  Davis was a tremendous flop, could never stay healthy while Curt Schilling went on to a borderline HoF career, Steve Finley hit 300 homers and stole 300 bases, won Gold Gloves and Harnisch ended up being a very solid pitcher. I don't think anyone could have predicted back then that those three would go on to reach the heights that they did.  Now I was 9 when the Orioles traded for Glenn Davis, I remember being excited about it.  I'm not sure what older and more sophisticated fans were thinking. I don't need to re-hash what a disaster the Chris Davis contract has been.  The issue here for me is that we can see what Schilling, Finley and Harnisch did over their careers and while they might not have been able to replicate those careers in Baltimore, it's easier to think that they could have done so. With the Davis contract, the "what if's" become a lot more murkier.  If we let Davis walk, do we re-sign Machado?   What else could that money have been spent on?  What would the roster look like today?  It's a lot harder to say. So Glenn Davis vs. Chris Davis.  Which was the worst in the history of this franchise?
    • See? That's where you messed up! You've been back on track since then tho...
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...