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A humiliating day for ACC Football

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I'm not sure if FSU and Miami will ever get back to the point where both teams are consistenlty in the top 5-10. Neither program has a lock on the recruitment of the best talent in Florida like they've had in the past and having better horses than everyone else was a primary factor in their success.

http://miami.scout.com/a.z?s=13&p=9&c=8&yr=2007

http://miami.scout.com/a.z?s=13&p=9&c=8&yr=2008

That looks like progress to me. You do have a point though, schools such as Rutgers have tapped into the talent pool big time. Randy Shannon needs to rebuild that wall.

Sportsguy, you are right about Bowden, he is killing FSU right now.

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According to ESPN's recruiting section, as of now, the top 10 recruiting classes are:

Miami

USC

Notre Dame

Georgia

Texas

Ohio State

Oklahoma

Clemson

FSU

Alabama

Looks quite good for the ACC. Not seeing any Big East schools there either. In fact, not one top 100 guy has committed to a Big East school as of yet. And only 2 in the top 150, both going to PITT. Didn't notice any Big East schools leading for the undecided's either, did see many of them list an ACC school as the leader though.:)

And if we go back to last year, the ACC has Miami at 9, UNC at 11, GT at 14, VT at 15, Clemson at 18, and FSU at 25. The Big East had PITT at 19. So it seems like PITT should improve, but otherwise, the ACC seems to have a huge recruiting edge over the Big East, we'll see how it translates to the field.

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According to ESPN's recruiting section, as of now, the top 10 recruiting classes are:

Miami

USC

Notre Dame

Georgia

Texas

Ohio State

Oklahoma

Clemson

FSU

Alabama

Looks quite good for the ACC. Not seeing any Big East schools there either. In fact, not one top 100 guy has committed to a Big East school as of yet. And only 2 in the top 150, both going to PITT. Didn't notice any Big East schools leading for the undecided's either, did see many of them list an ACC school as the leader though.:)

The BEast will be fine. What they lack in top ranked recruits they make up for with superior coaching. If a conferences strength was decided on signing day the ACC would be a lot closer to being the best BCS conference instead of being the worst of 'em. Teams like FSU and Miami almost always get stellar recruiting classes but that doesn't necessarily translate into a high ranking.

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The BEast will be fine. What they lack in top ranked recruits they make up for with superior coaching. If a conferences strength was decided on signing day the ACC wouldn't be a lot closer to being the best BCS conference instead of being the worst of 'em. Teams like FSU and Miami almost always get stellar recruiting classes but that doesn't necessarily translate into a high ranking.

You can sugarcoat it all you like, but 0 guys in the top 100 is quite bad. Petrino leaving takes away from that great coaching you claim the conference has. And Miami was great until recently where they had some issues, but now with the new coach, and with some great recruiting, they should rise again.

I'm not sure the ACC is the worst conference this year either, and it's not like they're consistently the worst either.

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You can sugarcoat it all you like, but 0 guys in the top 100 is quite bad. Petrino leaving takes away from that great coaching you claim the conference has. And Miami was great until recently where they had some issues, but now with the new coach, and with some great recruiting, they should rise again.

I'm not sure the ACC is the worst conference this year either, and it's not like they're consistently the worst either.

The ACC is far from the worst conference. However, among the 6 automatic BCS conferences, the ACC is sixth as of right now.......and the stats bear that out.

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The ACC is far from the worst conference. However' date=' among the 6 automatic BCS conferences, the ACC is sixth as of right now.......and the stats bear that out.

Yeah, I saw that, but it's close, and although I have no problem putting a lot of weight into that, I wouldn't only rely on that.

My post was talking about the future though, and some ACC programs should improve due to their recruiting, and of course coaching is important, but if the ACC easily outrecruits the Big East consistently, they'll usually be the better conference.

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You can sugarcoat it all you like, but 0 guys in the top 100 is quite bad. Petrino leaving takes away from that great coaching you claim the conference has. And Miami was great until recently where they had some issues, but now with the new coach, and with some great recruiting, they should rise again.

I'm not sure the ACC is the worst conference this year either, and it's not like they're consistently the worst either.

I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, frankly I couldn't care less about the recruiting scorecards. If you have a chance, take a look at the recruiting class rankings for the BEast schools from 5 years ago through today and it will be clear why I don't care.

Losing Petrino did hurt but Rich Rodriguez, Greg Schiano are among the best of the best and what Jim Leavitt has done has to be catapulting his name up the ranks.

As for the ACC conference... it has been the weakest conference since the major realignment and in the systems that I've seen that try to objectively rank conferences they are again this year - a bit behind the B10 at this point.

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I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, frankly I couldn't care less about the recruiting scorecards. If you have a chance, take a look at the recruiting class rankings for the BEast schools from 5 years ago through today and it will be clear why I don't care.

Losing Petrino did hurt but Rich Rodriguez, Greg Schiano are among the best of the best and what Jim Leavitt has done has to be catapulting his name up the ranks.

As for the ACC conference... it has been the weakest conference since the major realignment and in the systems that I've seen that try to objectively rank conferences they are again this year - a bit behind the B10 at this point.

Can you show me the conference rankings from before this year? Or the Big East's recruiting from a few years ago?

The ACC was the highest or 2nd highest ranked conference in 2004 depending on which average you want to use. I can't find the other years. However, the ACC looked pretty good in 2005, better than the Big East from glancing at the conferences.

So you don't care that WVU got Noel Devine? The Big East has had a couple decent years, but to be good long term, recruiting is very important, and I'm sure you'd prefer the Big East to be doing better in that regard.

Concerning those coaches, with the probable exception of your schools coach, I'm guessing any of the others one's would likely bolt if some legit big time programs came calling.

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Can you show me the conference rankings from before this year? Or the Big East's recruiting from a few years ago?

The ACC was the highest or 2nd highest ranked conference in 2004 depending on which average you want to use. I can't find the other years.

So you don't care that WVU got Noel Devine? The Big East has had a couple decent years, but to be good long term, recruiting is very important, and I'm sure you'd prefer the Big East to be doing better in that regard.

Concerning those coaches, with the probable exception of your schools coach, I'm guessing any of the others one's would likely bolt if some legit big time programs came calling.

You are correct, if we go by the date that the ACC realigned rather than when the BEast had it's realignment the ACC fared much better. And I do remember that the BEast was truly awful pre their major realignment. As for old rankings, I'm not sure where to find 'em. For the last two years at least, looking at the BCS rankings will show how much the ACC has struggled.

Of course I'm glad about getting Devine and yes recruiting is very important. But I'm not worried about landing players that some organization decides are top 100 players. There are a lot of great players out there, while the teams a the top of the recruiting scoreboard fight over Xavier Lee or Rhett Bomar (top QBs in 2004) I trust RR to find a Pat White. It doesn't take landing a bunch of top 100 players to do a good recruiting job. It doesn't bother me one bit not to see WVU in the top 10 or top 20 recruiting classes.

As for the coaches, maybe, maybe not... Schiano decided staying at Rutgers and in the BEast was more attractive than bolting for the ACC and the University of Miami job when he turned them down.

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You are correct, if we go by the date that the ACC realigned rather than when the BEast had it's realignment the ACC fared much better. And I do remember that the BEast was truly awful pre their major realignment. As for old rankings, I'm not sure where to find 'em. For the last two years at least, looking at the BCS rankings will show how much the ACC has struggled.

Of course I'm glad about getting Devine and yes recruiting is very important. But I'm not worried about landing players that some organization decides are top 100 players. There are a lot of great players out there, while the teams a the top of the recruiting scoreboard fight over Xavier Lee or Rhett Bomar (top QBs in 2004) I trust RR to find a Pat White. It doesn't take landing a bunch of top 100 players to do a good recruiting job. It doesn't bother me one bit not to see WVU in the top 10 or top 20 recruiting classes.

As for the coaches, maybe, maybe not... Schiano decided staying at Rutgers and in the BEast was more attractive than bolting for the ACC and the University of Miami job when he turned them down.

Last year the ACC wasn't that good at the top, but had a lot of solid teams, the Big East was the opposite, 3 very good teams, but not much else. Yes, the ACC has been down the last 2 years, but it's still only 2 years, the way you write, it makes it seem like it's been a lot longer than that.

So you wouldn't prefer to be in the top 20? Or to have some of the other Big East schools be in the top 20? Yes, they were able to get a few key sleepers recently, but you can't count on that coming through consistently. The higher rated players are usually going to end up better.

Well Miami was in a lot of turmoil at the time, and we'll see how he feels about that when Miami returns to being a power while Rutgers falls back down.

Bottomline to me, the Big East has won the battle of the last two years, but not by as much as you seem to indicate, but I'm confident the ACC will win the war. Better programs and better recruiting will win out imo.

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Last year the ACC wasn't that good at the top, but had a lot of solid teams, the Big East was the opposite, 3 very good teams, but not much else. Yes, the ACC has been down the last 2 years, but it's still only 2 years, the way you write, it makes it seem like it's been a lot longer than that.

So you wouldn't prefer to be in the top 20? Or to have some of the other Big East schools be in the top 20? Yes, they were able to get a few key sleepers recently, but you can't count on that coming through consistently. The higher rated players are usually going to end up better.

Well Miami was in a lot of turmoil at the time, and we'll see how he feels about that when Miami returns to being a power while Rutgers falls back down.

Bottomline to me, the Big East has won the battle of the last two year, but not by as much as you seem to indicate, but I'm confident the ACC will win the war. Better programs and better recruiting will win out imo.

You are correct, it has only been a short time since the new and improve BEast was born. But even in the short term this turn of events is something I'm sure Swofford never saw coming. I know the ACC will improve over time but after all his proclaimations after the raid about how great the ACC is, I can't help but enjoy their struggles.

I would of course love to see BEast teams get the best recruits possible but with as much talent as there is out there, the difference between top 20 recruiting class and the next 20 is not all that significant.

As for Schiano, why are you assuming that Rutgers is going to fall back down? He's building a solid program that will be good for years to come. My prediction is that if he leaves Rutgers it will be to the NFL. He's not going to jump to another college program. I also should point out that Leavitt also rebuffed Miami and Alabama to stay at USF.

I do agree w/you that the ACC will bounce back and be a very good conference. I'm not sure how you are defining programs but I am sure I would disagree that the ACC has "better" programs. In the end, much to Swofford's chagrin there will continue to be six BCS worthy conferences that will have their ups and downs.

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You are correct, it has only been a short time since the new and improve BEast was born. But even in the short term this turn of events is something I'm sure Swofford never saw coming. I know the ACC will improve over time but after all his proclaimations after the raid about how great the ACC is, I can't help but enjoy their struggles.

I would of course love to see BEast teams get the best recruits possible but with as much talent as there is out there, the difference between top 20 recruiting class and the next 20 is not all that significant.

As for Schiano, why are you assuming that Rutgers is going to fall back down? He's building a solid program that will be good for years to come. My prediction is that if he leaves Rutgers it will be to the NFL. He's not going to jump to another college program. I also should point out that Leavitt also rebuffed Miami and Alabama to stay at USF.

I do agree w/you that the ACC will bounce back and be a very good conference. I'm not sure how you are defining programs but I am sure I would disagree that the ACC has "better" programs. In the end, much to Swofford's chagrin there will continue to be six BCS worthy conferences that will have their ups and downs.

I just just don't buy that Rutgers is going to be consistently good, I doubt they turn out to be any better than what MD is.

Concerning better programs, I don't see how you can disagree unless you're just basing it off these last two years or predicting the future. Miami, FSU, and VaTech are better programs than any Big East school. The next tier of the ACC is at least as good program wise as schools 4-6 in the Big East.

The Big East has some programs that are at high points, maybe they'll mantain that and become very good to great programs, but as of now their not there. The Big East does not have an elite program, and schools like Rutgers, Cincy, and UConn are not even good programs as of now imo. They need to continue doing well to become that. Maybe WVU and/or USF will become elite programs, we shall see. Louisville had a chance, but I doubt that will happen with them with the loss of Petrino.

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I just just don't buy that Rutgers is going to be consistently good, I doubt they turn out to be any better than what MD is.

Concerning better programs, I don't see how you can disagree unless you're just basing it off these last two years or predicting the future. Miami, FSU, and VaTech are better programs than any Big East school. The next tier of the ACC is at least as good program wise as schools 4-6 in the Big East.

The Big East has some programs that are at high points, maybe they'll mantain that and become very good to great programs, but as of now their not there. The Big East does not have an elite program, and schools like Rutgers, Cincy, and UConn are not even good programs as of now imo. They need to continue doing well to become that. Maybe WVU and/or USF will become elite programs, we shall see. Louisville had a chance, but I doubt that will happen with them with the loss of Petrino.

We'll see about Rutgers. They have the potential to be the program for the North East. The Big East programs are on the ascension while FSU and Miami have slipped. Fundamentally, I guess where we differ is that I'm assuming you think some of the Big East success is flukish or an aberration rather than them being programs that are being taken to the next level. If I am correct I would ask what you think FSU or UM had when they made the move to being elitish programs in the 80s/90s that is lacking w/the USF program? I do think as long as RR and Schiano remain that WVU and Rutgers are going to be a consistently top 20ish programs. VT is in similar position w/Beamer and I do expect Miami to rebound under Shannon but I am becoming more and more convinced that FSU needs a coaching change to get back to being an elitish program.

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We'll see about Rutgers. They have the potential to be the program for the North East. The Big East programs are on the ascension while FSU and Miami have slipped. Fundamentally, I guess where we differ is that I'm assuming you think some of the Big East success is flukish or an aberration rather than them being programs that are being taken to the next level. If I am correct I would ask what you think FSU or UM had when they made the move to being elitish programs in the 80s/90s that is lacking w/the USF program? I do think as long as RR and Schiano remain that WVU and Rutgers are going to be a consistently top 20ish programs. VT is in similar position w/Beamer and I do expect Miami to rebound under Shannon but I am becoming more and more convinced that FSU needs a coaching change to get back to being an elitish program.

I'm not saying anything about USF not becoming an elite program. I'm saying right now the ACC has the better programs. Will USF, Rutgers, WVU, and Louisville become elite programs, maybe, I don't know, I highly doubt it with Rutgers and Louisville though.

Concerning what is lacking with USF, well as of right now, recruiting is lacking, as it is with the whole conference. Obviously that should improve due to the success of the team and conference, but I still think they'll be 4th in the state in recruiting, and that will likely lead to them being no higher than the 3rd best program in the state. I do agree with you about FSU and Bowden, they'll still be good with him, and will still recruit very well, but changing coaches will help.

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