A humiliating day for ACC Football

[geschinger]

I'm not saying anything about USF not becoming an elite program. I'm saying right now the ACC has the better programs. Will USF, Rutgers, WVU, and Louisville become elite programs, maybe, I don't know, I highly doubt it with Rutgers and Louisville though.

I do think WVU is every bit as good a program as VT, UM and FSU are right now. They are on pace for their 3rd top 10 finish in a row. FSU and UM certainly have the potential to get back to performing like top notch teams and vaulting over WVU but hey still have a lot of work to do. Only the passage of time will determine who (me) is right.

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

Concerning what is lacking with USF, well as of right now, recruiting is lacking, as it is with the whole conference. Obviously that should improve due to the success of the team and conference, but I still think they'll be 4th in the state in recruiting, and that will likely lead to them being no higher than the 3rd best program in the state. I do agree with you about FSU and Bowden, they'll still be good with him, and will still recruit very well, but changing coaches will help.

I have a feeling USF's ranking in the recruiting scorecard is going to rise quite a bit between now and signing day. If they run the table it make a monster difference in future years but I still expect them to lose at least one game this year. Maybe even tonight as it's the perfect scenario for an upset... On the road against a good team right after having their heads swollen by all the national attention.

[mweb]

I do think WVU is every bit as good a program as VT, UM and FSU are right now. They are on pace for their 3rd top 10 finish in a row. FSU and UM certainly have the potential to get back to performing like top notch teams and vaulting over WVU but hey still have a lot of work to do. Only the passage of time will determine who (me) is right.

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

I have a feeling USF's ranking in the recruiting scorecard is going to rise quite a bit between now and signing day. If they run the table it make a monster difference in future years but I still expect them to lose at least one game this year. Maybe even tonight as it's the perfect scenario for an upset... On the road against a good team right after having their heads swollen by all the national attention.

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

[Birds of B'more]

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

How many down seasons do you think should be allowed? Just about every program has its peaks and valleys. USC was practically irrelevent for quite a few years before Pete Carroll got there. Same for Oklahoma before Bob Stoops. Do we take into account those periods of time and say USC and Oklahoma are not elite? Or is the short list of elite programs something that is modified on a yearly basis?

[Birds of B'more]

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

I agree. There's a difference between being an elite team and an elite program. And being an elite program is usually about much more than the on-field results. Take Notre Dame, for instance........as much as I despise them I would call them an elite program without hesitation, even though they haven't fielded an elite team since Lou Holtz coached there. But they have the largest fan base of any program, their own network TV contract that practically gives them a license to print money, they can sell out any stadium in the country just by showing up, and even now are getting commits from the most high-demand recruits despite being 1-6........that's an elite program.

[geschinger]

How many down seasons do you think should be allowed? Just about every program has its peaks and valleys. USC was practically irrelevent for quite a few years before Pete Carroll got there. Same for Oklahoma before Bob Stoops. Do we take into account those periods of time and say USC and Oklahoma are not elite? Or is the short list of elite programs something that is modified on a yearly basis?

I guess it's all semantics. All those programs you mentioned have a lot more history than the roughly two decades that UM/FSU have. When I think of all-time programs I think of Oklahoma, Michigan, Alabama, Ohio State, Nebraska, USC, Notre Dame etc... IMO, UM and FSU are not in that class. And while a program like Nebraska is an all-time program IMO, I wouldn't consider them as currently being elite. I think they need to find a way to restore the program back to elite status. IMO Stoops and Carroll restored Oklahoma and USC respectively back into being elite programs. To answer your questions, I think a player generation is fair.

[geschinger]

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

I don't consider WVU to be elite either but I like them over the next few years a lot more than FSUs for the same reasons you mention. The jury is still out on Miami but I am relatively confident there won't be a ton of separation between Miami and WVU over the next few years.

IMO, it all comes down to the quality of the coach running the program.

[Birds of B'more]

Thought it would be appropriate to continue this thread where we left off.

NC State 0

S. Carolina 34

Virginia 7

USC 52

Virginia Tech 22

E. Carolina 27

Clemson 10

Alabama 34

With Clemson and VT losing, that should effectively eliminate the ACC from any discussion involving the National Championship....not that they were ever really in the discussion to begin with.

[Birds of B'more]

A bit of a bounce-back week for the ACC, with MD and UNC getting big OOC victories and even lowly Duke beat a perennial bowl team in Navy. UVA's humiliating loss at UConn was bad, but UVA might be the worst team in the ACC this year.

On the other hand, it was horrid day for the Pac 10 despite USC's big win.....

Cal 27

MD 35

Stanford 14

TCU 31

UCLA 0

BYU 59

Okla 55

Wash 14

Ariz 28

New Mex. 36

UNLV 23

ASU 20

And Oregon needed overtime to escape Purdue with a win....and they lost yet another starting QB.