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The Great Tillman Debate

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Posted this in Hank's recent thread, but figured it fits here too. Pretty much a 100% indisputable reason for starting Tillman at AAA:

If he isn't repeating he has no chance of succeeding at the ML level. Sounds like there may be a little more (I'd wager it's on the mental/approach side), but this is enough for me. I think it's great news, because if his mechanics are in-and-out, his command should stand to improve as he irons that out.

FINALLY!!!

Now, this I can get behind. We finally have a legit reason to send him down.

When ST started, I said the only ways Tillman shouldn't be on the OD roster are if he is hurt, looks terrible or mechanics are out of whack.

If he is having mechanics issues, then I agree that sending him down is the right move.

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FINALLY!!!

Now, this I can get behind. We finally have a legit reason to send him down.

When ST started, I said the only ways Tillman shouldn't be on the OD roster are if he is hurt, looks terrible or mechanics are out of whack.

If he is having mechanics issues, then I agree that sending him down is the right move.

I find it a little funny that now that you know what the Os were thinking and you could not see here in Maryland (which was pointed out to you earlier), you are suddenly on board. But I will give you credit and hopefully head off anybody calling total BS on you. SG did say that this was his take back in early February:

There is nothing he can do in AAA...It makes no sense to send him there unless he is hurt or just looks so out of whack in ST that you have to send him back.

Other than that, he should be here and he shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail for the job either.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93046&highlight=Tillman+mechanics

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I find it a little funny that now that you know what the Os were thinking and you could not see here in Maryland (which was pointed out to you earlier), you are suddenly on board. But I will give you credit and hopefully head off anybody calling total BS on you. SG did say that this was his take back in early February:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93046&highlight=Tillman+mechanics

I wouldn't care if someone called bs on me...I know what I said.

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Way to step out on a limb there ;)

Well, I am sure you would be ok with whatever the Orioles would do.

No one on here knew Tillman's mechanics were messed up and yet you still endorsed the decision because the Orioles told you so. That's not enough for me.

DH just making it over Tillman because he had a few good weeks is bad...DH making it over Tillman because Tillman is having issues with his mechanics is a totally different story...and its also valid.

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I wouldn't care if someone called bs on me...I know what I said.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that you care about what others think of you, SG. I was just trying to head off ... Nevermind. There's no point. Be ornery all you want.

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I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that you care about what others think of you, SG. I was just trying to head off ... Nevermind. There's no point. Be ornery all you want.

I wasn't clear..I appreciate what you were trying to say...My only point was that my arguments are consistent...Not going all over the place.

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So Tillman went from great command before his call up to poor command after his call up last year? Almost instantly?

I doubt there are many AAA hitters that handle Tillman FA/CH combo in the minors. From the lack of reports of Tillman's CH in the minors last year I doubt he even threw it much last year at AAA.

I am happy for DH. Very happy. After looking back it may be the best thing for the O's because Tillman definitely was going to be giving the time to develop as a SP. I don't trust DT as an evaluator of talent so DH may have been force to switch into a BP arm. I think that would have been a foolish thing to do so quickly. DH would have been just as bad as a RP if his SL was as poor as it was last year.

Side note: For you Tony or David's father. Does DH actually throw a CU or is that just what his good SL looks like? PITCHf/x claims he has a CU and SL which he threw each equally. This has been bugging me for a while now.

It's more like a slurve

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Well, I am sure you would be ok with whatever the Orioles would do.

No one on here knew Tillman's mechanics were messed up and yet you still endorsed the decision because the Orioles told you so. That's not enough for me.

DH just making it over Tillman because he had a few good weeks is bad...DH making it over Tillman because Tillman is having issues with his mechanics is a totally different story...and its also valid.

From the other side, some don't think we had enough info to bash the O's for this decision or to assume it was based on two starts(1 by each). That stance turned out to be very reasonable.

Of course the argument could have and was made that starting DH made sense otherwise as well, but obviously not everyone is going to agree there.

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Solid take from Fangraphs making the argument I just mentioned as the writer didn't seem aware of the mechanics issue.

While the Orioles are not in a position to contend this season, it does not mean that they have to throw all of their best young pitchers into the fire. This is part of the reason they acquired Kevin Millwood. He provides some solidity at the top of the rotation, affording the Orioles as much time as they need to develop the future of their rotation. They’re already using youngsters Matusz and Bergesen, and will likely use Tillman, only 22 years old, at some point this season. Hernandez is a bit older and further along in his development, making him a fair choice as the No. 5 starter. If he fails, Tillman won’t be far behind.

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Well, I am sure you would be ok with whatever the Orioles would do.

No one on here knew Tillman's mechanics were messed up and yet you still endorsed the decision because the Orioles told you so. That's not enough for me.

DH just making it over Tillman because he had a few good weeks is bad...DH making it over Tillman because Tillman is having issues with his mechanics is a totally different story...and its also valid.

Well SG, ultimately they are the professionals. Thats not to say I'm fine with whatever the Orioles do...far from it. Moeller should be here instead of Tatum, I've hated several signings/acqusitions. It's not always black and white in terms of being "okay with whatever the Orioles do" so please stop acting like it is.

But if they decree that a young pitcher needs to be sent down, I don't feel like they owe me an explanation as to why. Those people making the decisions have watched more baseball over the years than you and me combined x 10 and know what to look for. Unlike you and me, they're industry professionals and like I said they do not owe us an explanation for every little thing they do.

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Well SG, ultimately they are the professionals. Thats not to say I'm fine with whatever the Orioles do...far from it. Moeller should be here instead of Tatum, I've hated several signings/acqusitions. It's not always black and white in terms of being "okay with whatever the Orioles do" so please stop acting like it is.

But if they decree that a young pitcher needs to be sent down, I don't feel like they owe me an explanation as to why. Those people making the decisions have watched more baseball over the years than you and me combined x 10 and know what to look for. Unlike you and me, they're industry professionals and like I said they do not owe us an explanation for every little thing they do.

I disagree....If the intention going into ST is that Tillman is the 5th starter...if there were "no surprises" as of last week and if prior history suggests one is better than the other, then they do owe an explanation..maybe you don't feel they do or want one..That's good for you...I feel differently.

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