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From these, I think we've done "ok" vs. our competition. I'd argue we've done better than Tampa in this period, about the same as Toronto, worse than the Yankees, and far worse than Boston.

The difficulty is, a lot depends on whether a particular team draft was high school heavy or college heavy. The high school guys take ~ 3 years longer to develop. If one team drafts a bunch of college guys in the first 5 rounds while the other team drafts a bunch of high school guys, for the first few years afterwards the first team is going to look like it is doing better. It really takes 6-7 years to know for sure. By that time any impact high school guys ought to have reached the majors.

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2004 Draft for the Yankees-Hughes

Red Sox- Pedrioa

Blue Jays- Lind. Rays - NIEMANN,Brignac

O's- None

Were are the o's elite players?

This was the last of the DeMacio drafts. We failed to sign our no. 1 pick, who in any event hasn't amounted to anything after being drafted again by Tampa in the following year. We had no no. 2 pick as a result of signing Miguel Tejada. Bergesen (4th round) looks to be the best player we got in that draft. Not "elite," but he may still prove to be a solid starting pitcher as he certainly was last year.

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Not sure I completely agree with this. Especially when considering the Rays debut'ed the potential Cy Young winner for this year. Plus all the homegrown talent they have on the club.

It's true, the two guys they did bring up in that period (Longoria and Price) have been top-tier guys. That counts for a lot. Quality over quantity.

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It's true, the two guys they did bring up in that period (Longoria and Price) have been top-tier guys. That counts for a lot. Quality over quantity.

Price was the overall no. 1 pick in the draft, Longoria was the overall no. 3. We've never had a pick that high, until this year. Hopefully Machado has that kind of impact, but we probably won't have any clue until 2014 or later.

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I just don't buy it. I am happy with the direction our positional prospects are going(Machado, Narron, Hoes, Avery, Schoop, Leonora, Webb, Hoppy, Welty, Joseph, Bell, Veloz, Mummey, Townsend). Its a heck of a lot better right now than it was.

The problem is that our division opponents dwarf that list of Oriole prospects you just put together.

Boston - Kalish, Anderson, Rizzo, Westmoreland, Reddick, Iglesias, Fuentes, Gibson, Middlebrooks, Jacobs, Nava, Tejeda, Head, Lavarnway, Vinicio, Navarro, Vinicio, Brentz, Vitek, Coyle, Cecchini, Ramos, Perkins, Hollenbeck...I can keep going.

Some of these guys will flame out. Some are struggling right now. But the key for Boston is that they have reinforcements for any failures they have. They have back up options and they have back ups for their main back ups. They have a pipeline of talent. And the overall talent level of their top guys are better than the guys we have at the top, besides maybe Machado, but that is debatable.

New York - Montero, Adams, Heathcott, Romine, De Leon, Sosa, Gary Sanchez, Nunez, Laird, Culver, Gumbs, Segedin, Austin, Jordan...not as deep, but still better than what Baltimore has to offer

Tampa - Jennings, Brignac, Beckham, Sweeney, Bailey, Malm, Kang, Guevara, Jaso, Bortnick, Glaesmann, Dietrich, O'Conner, Wunderlich, Price...and once they sign all their 2010 draftees, they'll be reloaded once again. Guys like Sale, Lorenzen, Vettleson, and Ryan will give a shot of talent into that organization. Plus, they have signed one of the top Latin American talents on the market.

Toronto - Wallace, d'Arnaud, Arencibia, Emaus, Goins, McDade, Tolisano, Carlos Perez, Thames, Marisnick, Pierre, Kellen Sweeney, Marcus Knecht...and they also signed a very talented third base from Latin America.

Our positional talent level pales in comparison to what the other teams in our division have in their systems.

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Price was the overall no. 1 pick in the draft, Longoria was the overall no. 3. We've never had a pick that high, until this year. Hopefully Machado has that kind of impact, but we probably won't have any clue until 2014 or later.

Wieters has to count as a top 3 talent, though, don't you think?

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it seems like there's a sluggish malaise (sp?) in everything the O's do throughout the organization. It starts at the top. When you settle for players like Atkins and Izturis, you know there's no sense of urgency and no passion for winning. That permeates throughout the organization - management players, and scouts. There is no leadership.

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Wieters has to count as a top 3 talent, though, don't you think?

And Matusz was the top pitcher off the board in his class. I think it's probably fair to compare Wieters to Longo and Matusz to Price.

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And Matusz was the top pitcher off the board in his class. I think it's probably fair to compare Wieters to Longo and Matusz to Price.

I am not 100% sure it is fair to compare Matusz to Price.

I mean you said it yourself that different draft classes have different values.

I do agree with Wieters and Longo though.

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The problem is that our division opponents dwarf that list of Oriole prospects you just put together.

Boston - Kalish, Anderson, Rizzo, Westmoreland, Reddick, Iglesias, Fuentes, Gibson, Middlebrooks, Jacobs, Nava, Tejeda, Head, Lavarnway, Vinicio, Navarro, Vinicio, Brentz, Vitek, Coyle, Cecchini, Ramos, Perkins, Hollenbeck...I can keep going.

Some of these guys will flame out. Some are struggling right now. But the key for Boston is that they have reinforcements for any failures they have. They have back up options and they have back ups for their main back ups. They have a pipeline of talent. And the overall talent level of their top guys are better than the guys we have at the top, besides maybe Machado, but that is debatable.

New York - Montero, Adams, Heathcott, Romine, De Leon, Sosa, Gary Sanchez, Nunez, Laird, Culver, Gumbs, Segedin, Austin, Jordan...not as deep, but still better than what Baltimore has to offer

Tampa - Jennings, Brignac, Beckham, Sweeney, Bailey, Malm, Kang, Guevara, Jaso, Bortnick, Glaesmann, Dietrich, O'Conner, Wunderlich, Price...and once they sign all their 2010 draftees, they'll be reloaded once again. Guys like Sale, Lorenzen, Vettleson, and Ryan will give a shot of talent into that organization. Plus, they have signed one of the top Latin American talents on the market.

Toronto - Wallace, d'Arnaud, Arencibia, Emaus, Goins, McDade, Tolisano, Carlos Perez, Thames, Marisnick, Pierre, Kellen Sweeney, Marcus Knecht...and they also signed a very talented third base from Latin America.

Our positional talent level pales in comparison to what the other teams in our division have in their systems.

They have backup options for their backup's backup's 3rd cousin's sister's boyfriends. They are loaded.

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I am not 100% sure it is fair to compare Matusz to Price.

I mean you said it yourself that different draft classes have different values.

I do agree with Wieters and Longo though.

Same here. Price had more upside than Matusz, that was known going in.

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Compare JJ to our main competition. AL East draftees who have made the majors, * for ones who have contributed more than a cup of coffee.

2005:

Yankees: *Gardner (OF), *Fister (RHSP), *A.Jackson (OF), J.Turner (IF)

Red Sox: *Ellsbury (OF), C.Hansen (RHP), *Buchholz (RHP), *Lowrie (2B), M.Bowden (RHP), J.Hester ©

Rays: nobody

Jays: *Romero (RHSP), R.Ray (RHP)

Orioles: *Olsen (LHP), *Reimold (OF), *D.Hernandez (RHP)

2006:

Yankees: *I.Kennedy (RHP), *Chamberlain (RHP), Curtis (OF), Melancon (RHP), D.McCutcheon (RHP), *D.Robertson (RHP), Russo (2B)

Red Sox: *Bard (RHP), *Masterson (RHP), Bates (1B), Richardson (LHP), Reddick (OF)

Rays: *Longoria (3B), J.Butler (RHP)

Jays: *Snider (OF), B.Mills (LHP)

Orioles: *Berken (RHP)

2007:

Yankees: none

Red Sox: none

Rays: *Price (LHP)

Jays: *Cecil (LHP), B.Mills (LHP), Rzepczynski (LHP)

Orioles: *Wieters ©, Arrieta (RHP)

2008:

Yankees: none

Red Sox: none

Rays: none

Jays: none

Orioles: *Matusz (LHP)

From these, I think we've done "ok" vs. our competition. I'd argue we've done better than Tampa in this period, about the same as Toronto, worse than the Yankees, and far worse than Boston.

Great information. Thanks for posting. However, I think you need to put some further context on these drafts. Most people believe the Red Sox have done a better job drafting the last few years than the O's, which is probably true. But they have also had more picks in the early rounds to obtain this success. For example, consider the players taken in the first and second rounds (including compensation picks) by the two teams from 2005 to 2007.

2005

Red Sox

Player Slot Selected

Jacoby Ellsbury 23 (first round)

Craig Hansen 26 (first round)

Clay Buchholtz 42 (first round compensation)

Jed Lowrie 45 (first round compensation)

Michael Bowden 47 (first round compensation)

Jonathan Egan 57 (second round)

O's

Brandon Synder 13 (first round)

Garret Olsen 48 (first round compensation)

Nolan Reimold 61 (second round)

2006

Red Sox

Jason Place 27 (first round)

Daniel Bard 28 (first round)

Kristopher Johnson 40 (first round compensation)

Caleb Clay 44 (first round compensation)

Justin Masterson 71 (second round)

O's

Billy Rowell 9 (first round)

Petro Beato 32 (first round compensation)

Ryan Adams 58 (second round)

2007

Red Sox

Nick Hagadone 55 (first round compensation)

Jeff Morris 84 (second round)

O's

Matt Wieters 5 (first round).

Summary

So in the three year span of 2005 through 2007, the Red Sox had 13 first and second round picks (including compensation picks) and the O's had 7. You would expect the Red Sox to have done better.

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So in the three year span of 2005 through 2007, the Red Sox had 13 first and second round picks (including compensation picks) and the O's had 7. You would expect the Red Sox to have done better.
Very good point. Comparing overall classes, you've gotta consider the number of high picks.

The reasons for the differing number of picks don't have anything to do with Joe Jordan, but rather the front office decisions. Its generally easier for the Sox to receive more supplemental picks, seeing as they have better players leaving as FAs than we tend to have. Hopefully we can stop or at least start limiting the number of picks we lose due to signing free agents. Or at least make sure we don't lose picks on relief pitchers any more.

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