Jump to content
RZNJ

Matt Angle verses Adam Jones

Recommended Posts

Well, since I asked you to use thought and reason, I should have figured you wouldn't be capable of giving me an answer.

So, to answer you I will say this...I don't know. It makes no sense not to challenge him. Now, maybe Willits(along with Angle) show that if you have amazing plate discipline, that you can overcome the lack of power. But Willits is also showing that he doesn't have what it takes to stay in the majors and that lack of power is likely a big reason for that.

BTW, Willits and Angle both have taken a walk about once every 6.7 at bats in the minors. Willits averaged an XBH every 15 at bats..Angle every 21. So, Willits has actually shown more power.

You want to look for a comp. Willits is your man. They have similar body types. They don't have much power...Decent contact rates. Good speed.

Do you think Willits should be an everyday CFer in the majors?

You used your thought and reason and came up with "I don't know"?

That makes total sense to me.

IF he can put up his 2007 numbers and play and exceptional CF, YES!

Let me ask you this. How does the offensive 2007 season of Willits and gold glove caliber defense in CF, compare to an .800 OPS (.280/.320/.480) of Adam Jones with average to sub average defense?

BTW, what question did I fail to answer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not the point. The point is that if you have no power, you can still draw walks. Very few full time players nowadays have fewer than 5 homeruns. Most of them are poor hitters with poor plate disicpline, like Cesar Izturis. It doesn't mean a guy with no power and good plate discipline can't draw walks.

Yes, you can...but much more often than not it's player with power who draw walks. That's simply reflected in the numbers, and it goes to show that if Angle could manage to draw walks at a decent rate in the majors, he would in fact be an exception to the general "rule" (used in a loose sense). The Willits comparison isn't very helpful to Angle's case, either. Willits' numbers are kind of terrible overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You used your thought and reason and came up with "I don't know"?

That makes total sense to me.

IF he can put up his 2007 numbers and play and exceptional CF, YES!

Let me ask you this. How does the offensive 2007 season of Willits and gold glove caliber defense in CF, compare to an .800 OPS (.280/.320/.480) of Adam Jones with average to sub average defense?

BTW, what question did I fail to answer?

I don't understand this comparison. Willits followed up 2007 by hitting .194 in 82 games in 2008. I mean...yeah, if someone like Willits could put up what amounts to a career year (i.e. a reflection of the absolute peak of his ability) every season, of course you'd play him. But that's not what tends to happen in real life...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, you can...but much more often than not it's player with power who draw walks. That's simply reflected in the numbers, and it goes to show that if Angle could manage to draw walks at a decent rate in the majors, he would in fact be an exception to the general "rule" (used in a loose sense). The Willits comparison isn't very helpful to Angle's case, either. Willits' numbers are kind of terrible overall.

I agree that most of the playes who draw walks have power. :confused:

We agree that you don't have to have power to draw walks. :confused:

So what if it's an exception to the rule? There are players with no power who draw walks.

Do you think Willits numbers in 2007, with a .391 OBP were terrible overall?

The big question is this. Is Reggie Willits a great defender in CF? Because Matt Angle is supposed to be just that. If he isn't, the whole argument is moot. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand this comparison. Willits followed up 2007 by hitting .194 in 82 games in 2008. I mean...yeah, if someone like Willits could put up what amounts to a career year (i.e. a reflection of the absolute peak of his ability) every season, of course you'd play him. But that's not what tends to happen in real life...

How do you know that Reggie Willits career year, will not be a normal year for Matt Angle? They are similar players. They aren't the same player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that most of the playes who draw walks have power. :confused:

We agree that you don't have to have power to draw walks. :confused:

So what if it's an exception to the rule? There are players with no power who draw walks.

Do you think Willits numbers in 2007, with a .391 OBP were terrible overall?

The rule would be that players who draw walks are predominately players with power. So...when someone who falls into the "not" part of the "much more often than not" equation, he's the exception. In other words, the odds are against Angle being that kind of exception because most players with zero power aren't great at drawing walks.

As for the 2007 thing, I got to that already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You used your thought and reason and came up with "I don't know"?

That makes total sense to me.

And then went on to say that perhaps guys with exceptional plate discipline can overcome poor power...But I would need to see more info to back it up!
Let me ask you this. How does the offensive 2007 season of Willits and gold glove caliber defense in CF, compare to an .800 OPS (.280/.320/.480) of Adam Jones with average to sub average defense?

Willits 2007 season wasn't over a full season, so who knows if he could sustain it over 600 at bats. However, if you are asking if I would rather have a high OBP, low slugging CFer vs low OBP, high slugging...my answer would be it depends on what the rest of the team looks like. The Orioles do need some higher OBP guys but I have my doubts about Angle being able to do it for 600 at bats at this level.

BTW, what question did I fail to answer?
I asked you if you were a pitcher, why wouldn't you challenge a hitter with no power...and the other part to that is why wouldn't you challenge a hitter whose main weapon is his speed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you know that Reggie Willits career year, will not be a normal year for Matt Angle? They are similar players. They aren't the same player.

Still undercuts the value of the comparison. We don't know what Angle would do with absolute certainty because he hasn't played in the majors, but we can make educated guesses based on the performances of other players...and it's not really being intellectually fair/honest to make a comparison to Willits in one breath by using his career year as a shining example, and then say "Angle might do this every year b/c he and Willits aren't the same player."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The rule would be that players who draw walks are predominately players with power. So...when someone who falls into the "not" part of the "much more often than not" equation, he's the exception. In other words, the odds are against Angle being that kind of exception because most players with zero power aren't great at drawing walks.

As for the 2007 thing, I got to that already.

Show me a guy with zero power and great discipline in the minors, who then failed to draw walks in the majors. That would aid your argument. The argument was that Angle has no power, pitchers would challenge him, and the walks would not be there. That has been disproven by the examples of Figgins, Andrus, and Willits. I have to thank SG for providing the example of Willits, which happens to be the best one! LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you know that Reggie Willits career year, will not be a normal year for Matt Angle? They are similar players. They aren't the same player.
How do you know that Reggie Willits worst year will not be a normal year for Matt Angle? They are similar players. They aren't the same player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And then went on to say that perhaps guys with exceptional plate discipline can overcome poor power...But I would need to see more info to back it up!

Willits 2007 season wasn't over a full season, so who knows if he could sustain it over 600 at bats. However, if you are asking if I would rather have a high OBP, low slugging CFer vs low OBP, high slugging...my answer would be it depends on what the rest of the team looks like. The Orioles do need some higher OBP guys but I have my doubts about Angle being able to do it for 600 at bats at this level.

I asked you if you were a pitcher, why wouldn't you challenge a hitter with no power...and the other part to that is why wouldn't you challenge a hitter whose main weapon is his speed?

Of course I would challenge them and make a point of not walking the guy. Of course, I'm not a ML pitcher and it isn't as easy as it looks. Maybe ML pitchers are just really stupid, though. All I know, is that there are guys with ZERO power drawing walks. Draw your own conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember reading about Ivan DeJesus, a player I have always liked for our future SS.

He had 2 strikes against him:

1) Can he stay at SS?

2) Good plate discipline but no power and they wonder if the plate discipline would transfer over to the majors because of the reasons I talked about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course I would challenge them and make a point of not walking the guy. Of course, I'm not a ML pitcher and it isn't as easy as it looks. Maybe ML pitchers are just really stupid, though. All I know, is that there are guys with ZERO power drawing walks. Draw your own conclusion.

But is that always the case or are those guys the exceptions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember reading about Ivan DeJesus, a player I have always liked for our future SS.

He had 2 strikes against him:

1) Can he stay at SS?

2) Good plate discipline but no power and they wonder if the plate discipline would transfer over to the majors because of the reasons I talked about.

Who knows. Every player is different. All I know, is that you can find plenty of examples of players with no power who drew walks in the majors. Was just looking at Ozzie Smith's career. He hit a total of 1 homer in his first 4 full seasons, and yet walked 71 times during his third year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But is that always the case or are those guys the exceptions?

They are the exceptions. But they are the exceptions for a reason. Most guys with no power are just plain, bad hitters. Guys like Cesar Izturis who can't hit for power and will chase the pitcher's pitch. What it says to me, is that even if you have no power BUT are a threat to get a hit, IF you still exhibit good plate discipline, you will still draw a decent amount of walks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores

News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats







×
×
  • Create New...