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Ravens vs Bengals/Cover 2

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You're a glutton for punishment. I can't wash the bad taste of that game out of my mouth soon enough. Is it Sunday yet?

Good observations' date=' though. It sure does seem like Zimmer has Cam Cameron's number.[/quote']

Ugh, I'm there with you. It seems like the only cure to this right now is Sunday. It's gonna be a long week!

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Why do you continue to argue like Rshack?

No one is saying its Cameron's fault that Joe looked awful.

Do you understand that these are 2 seperate points?

I outlined the game plan for the last 3 games against Cinci...Do you honestly look at what i wrote and come away thinking that Cameron is doing a good job game planning against Cinci?

Hey, I'm on subject so I'm not acting like that guy ;)

My whole point is if Joe had performed up to even an average QB standard I think people would be less likely to apply blame to Cam.

Could we have ran the ball more yesterday, sure. Would I like to see Ray Rice get more than 16 touches, sure. Could I buy into the fact that Cam was outcoached by Zimmer, sure.

What I don't want it to do is allow any of that to cloud the fact that Joe Flacco was the MAIN reason we lost yesterday. Yes, others had poor games, perhaps even Cam, but if our QB doesn't look like a confused D-II QB then we win.

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There were two mistakes that Flacco made that, given the nature of the game, could’ve gone a long way. In the second quarter, the Ravens send 5 wide on a 3rd and 3. Flacco goes to a three step drop and lofts a pass to McGahee that falls incomplete. The Bengals didn’t anticipate the late shift and ended up doubling Willis and Flacco bailed them out. The Bengals were still in the cover two and there was likely a better option down field. My only assumption here is that this was a designed play and a poor one. The second mistake was the bubble screen pass to Boldin that resulted in a two yard loss. We should’ve immediately checkout of that. Not a huge mistake but one where Flacco needs to have a better understanding of what is in front of him.

The Ravens continually ran into the hands of the Bengals yesterday. I really can’t come up with a plausible reasoning for why they did this. We didn’t force the Bengals into any adjustments all game long. Getting more yardage in the running game yesterday could’ve had the Bengals switch back to a base defense and open up more plays downfield.

We were both outplayed and outcoached yesterday.

I watched the offensive snaps back a handful of times last night, and the McGahee play was one that stood out to me too. Lofting a 25-yard wheel route to a running back on 3rd and 3 obviously struck me as a curious decision.

McGahee ended up triple covered on the play. But underneath, Derrick Mason ran a TERRIFIC route and came open just shy of the sticks, with plenty of room to run. Had Joe spotted him he would have easily picked up the first down. Unfortunately, the ball came out a split second after Mason came open. Why did this happen?

I truly believe that the root of the problem is that Joe has little confidence in his protection right now, and understandably so. The Ravens offensive line is not playing on the level we have become accustomed to over the first two years of Joe's tenure here. This unit was absolutely DOMINATED by the Bengals yesterday, and didn't fair much better against the Jets a week prior. Credit goes to those defenses, who are both excellent.

From what I can see, Joe's actually done a solid job of buying time this year to extend plays and give himself a chance (Q3 9:25 is a terrific example for anyone who can watch the game back), and his movement in the pocket has notably improved. But when he stays in the pocket, there's no doubt in my mind his internal clock is ticking slightly too fast. With defenders constantly in his grill or at his feet, Joe cannot come out of his drop, survey the field, and step into his throws. He's spending too much time worrying about his feet, and not enough about the defense down field. This a fundamental problem that will sink every quarterback in the NFL whether your Drew Brees or Jamarcus Russell. It affects your accuracy and decision making - both of which Joe struggled mightily with yesterday.

It's not that Joe doesn't want to step up into the pocket and into his throws. It's that there IS no consistent pocket. Compare the protection for Peyton Manning over the course of his success to that of Joe Flacco yesterday. It ain't close.

Opposing teams are going to continue to come after our offensive line, and as a result our quarterback. Most won't be able to do it with only four like the Bengals did often times yesterday, which will slant things in our direction. But it won't be enough against sound defenses that remain on our schedule like Pittsburgh, New England, Miami and a rematch with the Bengals.

I didn't come away from re-watching the Bengals game yesterday thinking Joe can't play the position at a high level. I came away thinking that this offense looks totally out of sync, and that they need to collectively look at themselves in the mirror and assess what they're doing and what they need to be doing differently.

Protecting your quarterback should be your number one priority. That comes back to play-calling. And THAT comes back to Cam Cameron.

There will be weeks where the Ravens can throw it 40 times and run it 25. This was not one of those weeks. As an offensive coordinator, you need to know your personel, and your opponent. It didn't seem as if Cam Cameron did either. That's just IMO.

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You're a glutton for punishment. I can't wash the bad taste of that game out of my mouth soon enough. Is it Sunday yet?

Good observations' date=' though. It sure does seem like Zimmer has Cam Cameron's number.[/quote']

The second time through is the toughest. There still a little bit of anxiety there despite knowing the outcome.

I've complained about Cam's offense going back to last season. There's not too many teams in this league that can stop the guys we have in the backfield. Our O-line is particularly built for the running game. Why they don't get the ball in their hands more often is beyond me.

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I watched the offensive snaps back a handful of times last night, and the McGahee play was one that stood out to me too. Lofting a 25-yard wheel route to a running back on 3rd and 3 obviously struck me as a curious decision.

McGahee ended up triple covered on the play. But underneath, Derrick Mason ran a TERRIFIC route and came open just shy of the sticks, with plenty of room to run. Had Joe spotted him he would have easily picked up the first down. Unfortunately, the ball came out a split second after Mason came open. Why did this happen?

I truly believe that the root of the problem is that Joe has little confidence in his protection right now, and understandably so. The Ravens offensive line is not playing on the level we have become accustomed to over the first two years of Joe's tenure here. This unit was absolutely DOMINATED by the Bengals yesterday, and didn't fair much better against the Jets a week prior. Credit goes to those defenses, who are both excellent.

From what I can see, Joe's actually done a solid job of buying time this year to extend plays and give himself a chance (Q3 9:25 is a terrific example for anyone who can watch the game back), and his movement in the pocket has notably improved. But when he stays in the pocket, there's no doubt in my mind his internal clock is ticking slightly too fast. With defenders constantly in his grill or at his feet, Joe cannot come out of his drop, survey the field, and step into his throws. He's spending too much time worrying about his feet, and not enough about the defense down field. This a fundamental problem that will sink every quarterback in the NFL whether your Drew Brees or Jamarcus Russell. It affects your accuracy and decision making - both of which Joe struggled mightily with yesterday.

It's not that Joe doesn't want to step up into the pocket and into his throws. It's that there IS no consistent pocket. Compare the protection for Peyton Manning over the course of his success to that of Joe Flacco yesterday. It ain't close.

Opposing teams are going to continue to come after our offensive line, and as a result our quarterback. Most won't be able to do it with only four like the Bengals did often times yesterday, which will slant things in our direction. But it won't be enough against sound defenses that remain on our schedule like Pittsburgh, New England, Miami and a rematch with the Bengals.

I didn't come away from re-watching the Bengals game yesterday thinking Joe can't play the position at a high level. I came away thinking that this offense looks totally out of sync, and that they need to collectively look at themselves in the mirror and assess what they're doing and what they need to be doing differently.

Protecting your quarterback should be your number one priority. That comes back to play-calling. And THAT comes back to Cam Cameron.

There will be weeks where the Ravens can throw it 40 times and run it 25. This was not one of those weeks. As an offensive coordinator, you need to know your personel, and your opponent. It didn't seem as if Cam Cameron did either. That's just IMO.

Now it's the O-line. Dude you are killing me. Are you related to Flacco? So now Joe doesn't trust his front line like he did his first two season?

So does this mean you can admit he's regressed since then, even if you are only admitting it's because of everyone and everything else? Can we at least hear you admit that Joe's performance has regressed?

By the way, Cam left Ray Rice in block several times in order to get Heap out against smaller defenders. Guess that's poor game planning for protection?

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The second time through is the toughest. There still a little bit of anxiety there despite knowing the outcome.

I've complained about Cam's offense going back to last season. There's not too many teams in this league that can stop the guys we have in the backfield. Our O-line is particularly built for the running game. Why they don't get the ball in their hands more often is beyond me.

Now I remember why we used to argue about the Ravens before. You are a boring Billick-ball guy. I had forgotten that.

I love ya man, but the Ravens didn't go out and get Boldin and Housh so we could run the ball 45 times a game.

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The second time through is the toughest. There still a little bit of anxiety there despite knowing the outcome.

I've complained about Cam's offense going back to last season. There's not too many teams in this league that can stop the guys we have in the backfield. Our O-line is particularly built for the running game. Why they don't get the ball in their hands more often is beyond me.

I was particularly irritated yesterday when Rice picked up 7 yards on first down early in the game, and they brought in McGahee to run straight into a pile off tackle on 2nd and 3. I like McGahee too but he typically needs a handful of carries to start really running north-south. Before that he tries to bounce it out too frequently. I would run Rice as frequently as possible unless you see something through the course of the game that makes it a good situation for McGahee. Are they really still that worried about Rice's durability? I want to keep him healthy, too, but the guy is our bread and butter.

Later in the game Rice picked up 7 again and they left him in, and he then picked up the 1st on the next play. It was exactly why I was so annoyed about the earlier series. Then we ran that misdirection play where we passed to the left to Dickson, and then several more good plays and the TD to Mason. I thought that drive was going to set up a totally different offense in the 2nd half, but the next drive they were back to being stupid. Great pickup by Rice, then it was incomplete, stupid screen to Boldin -2, interception. :rolleyes:

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Now I remember why we used to argue about the Ravens before. You are a boring Billick-ball guy. I had forgotten that.

I love ya man, but the Ravens didn't go out and get Boldin and Housh so we could run the ball 45 times a game.

Come on, I'm not saying they should run the ball 45 times. I'm saying they need to do what works.

The passing game wasn't working yesterday while the running game picked up yardage in limited action.

I like when coaches make adjustments to better their football team. I also like to get my car washed when it gets dirty.

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Why do you continue to argue like Rshack?

Nah, arguing like RShack would be something like:

"I don't know why people are *losing* their freakin' minds over *one* measley game. We beat the Jets to start out 1-0, went to Cincinnato, the *defending* AFC North Champs, lost by 5 points, and everyone is jumping off a bridge this morning. Seriously, everyone is nuts and clearly are incapable of looking at things through the purple colored glasses like me."

Geez, I sure don't miss being called an idiot all the time by a fellow fan.

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What I don't want it to do is allow any of that to cloud the fact that Joe Flacco was the MAIN reason we lost yesterday. Yes, others had poor games, perhaps even Cam, but if our QB doesn't look like a confused D-II QB then we win.

Just did a quick bit of analysis here. Let's say we ran you out to pitch against the opposing team. But they knew what was coming every single time. They knew it was going to be a fastball (pass) every time you got to 2-0 (3rd down). Do you think you'd get tagged?

Well the Ravens ran the ball on third down a resounding 3 times in 37 attempts in two games.

3rd and 3 (Incomplete), 3rd and 6 (Flacco Rush for 1st), 3rd and 8 (Incomplete), 3rd and 4 (INT), 3rd and 3 (Incomplete), 3rd and 9 (Pass Boldin 1st down), 3rd and 9 (Incomplete), 3rd and 10 (Incomplete), 3rd and 8 (TD, pass Flacco), 3rd and 12 (INT), 3rd and 9 (Incomplete), 3rd and 12 (Pass Ray Rice, 8 yard game), 3rd and 5 (Pass, Boldin 1st down), 3rd and 5 (Incomplete), 3rd and 8 (Sack), 4th and 7 (INT).

3rd and 3 (pass), 3rd and 28 (pass), 3rd and 2 (pass), 3rd and 9 (pass), 3rd and 9 (pass), 3rd and 3 (pass), 3rd and 1 (RUSH), 3rd and 10 (pass), 3rd and 1 (Goal Line rush), 3rd and 5 (pass), 3rd and 7 (pass), 3rd and 7 (pass), 3rd and 2 (pass), 3rd and 10 (pass), 3rd and 3 (pass), 3rd and 11 (rush), 3rd and 10 (pass), 3rd and 2 (pass), 3rd and 5 (pass), 3rd and 1 (QB sneak), 3rd and 17 (pass).

I'm pretty sure it's someone job on Cinci's and every other team in the rest of the league to do this. And I just did it in like 15 minutes. A large part of Flacco's problem is that teams aren't afraid of the Ravens attempting to run the ball. Any team that is one dimensional will lose.

By the end of the game Cinci was looking pass the whole time. That does make it harder to play against a team. And it does impact a QB. Granted this isn't everything. But just once spread everyone out and run it. CBs can't be so aggressive in the passing defense if that's the case. It seems simple to grasp the notion that if a team feels like they know what you're going to do they'll be a lot more comfortable doing it.

I dunno. Call me a Jones...oops...Flacco Apologist. But no one is doing this dude any favors right now. It still doesn't look like he has the freedom to audible. Hopefully we see more balance next week, or honestly I think it'll be more of the same.

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My whole point is if Joe had performed up to even an average QB standard I think people would be less likely to apply blame to Cam.
That's sort of a moot point, though. If Joe had played like an average QB we win the game easily and wouldn't have needed to run the ball more to have a better shot to win.

The entire reason people are upset with Cameron is because he didn't respond to what was happening on the field with Flacco being so terrible. If Flacco hadn't played so terribly, then there wouldn't have been the need for Cameron to respond to it by going to Rice far more often.

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Come on, I'm not saying they should run the ball 45 times. I'm saying they need to do what works.

The passing game wasn't working yesterday while the running game picked up yardage in limited action.

I like when coaches make adjustments to better their football team. I also like to get my car washed when it gets dirty.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

It was insane to pass the ball as relentlessly as we did yesterday.

I didn't have a problem with trying passing so much until the 4th quarter starter. We should have really been running the ball then. Before then there were reasons to believe Flacco was gonna shake out the cobwebs and play better, especially after the first drive of the 3rd quarter. But he followed that up with a couple really poor drives and when we did run, we had success.

Continuing to throw so much in the 4th quarter when we were always within a FG until there were under 4 minutes left was just an embarrassingly terrible unwillingness for Cameron to adapt to the reality of the game in front of him.

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Now I remember why we used to argue about the Ravens before. You are a boring Billick-ball guy. I had forgotten that.

I love ya man, but the Ravens didn't go out and get Boldin and Housh so we could run the ball 45 times a game.

Yeah but the Ravens didn't think their defense would prevent a TD from being scored at all in the first two games.

If the Ravens win the game with Housh (who by the way dropped 3 passes yesterday) and Boldin (who looked like he didn't think Jones could get the INT on the slant) catching 100 balls so be it.

But Billick, Belicheck or Cameron, I could care less if they run it 100 times. If they win it means they did something right. Baltimore needs a game where they really run the ball now, or no one is going to buy a single play action fake for the rest of the year.

I think I read there were 2 play action passes the whole first half. I mean if you're not going to run it, at least try to pretend.

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We'll just have to disagree and that's fine. Joe has not played like an average QB this season and really hasn't since about halfway through last year. I watch a lot of teams in the NFL and he is certainly has played very poorly and would not rate as an average QB, especially against the better defenses where the numbers show how poor he has been.

Joe played average in game 1. You're mad because we didn't score 27 points that game, I know...but we still won largely because of what Joe did in that game and you're ignoring it.

You must have some lofty expectations for an "average QB". I see an average QB as a 16 TD/14 INT kind of guy with yard totals in the low 3,000's.

Outside of a few bad games, Flacco has been average --> above average his entire career.

Edited by NewMarketSean

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Now I remember why we used to argue about the Ravens before. You are a boring Billick-ball guy. I had forgotten that.

I love ya man, but the Ravens didn't go out and get Boldin and Housh so we could run the ball 45 times a game.

Do you think the Jets got Edwards and Holmes to pass the ball 40-50 times a game? They are a running team. They have Greene and they got LT for a reason. Sanchez is still in development yet the Jets are SB contenders. Why should we be any different?

Good teams have good WR's to catch the passes when they need to be caught. Getting a little more focused on the run would not be bad for the Ravens right now.

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