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Miller192

Ravens vs Bengals/Cover 2

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I will agree Cam should have ran more but I am disappointed that he has to run more because you do not have the confidence in your QB to win you a close game.
I'm very confident Joe can win most close games.

But guys can have off days. That's exactly what I think yesterday was. Just an absolutely terrible day for him. I don't buy the arguments some have made that Joe has looked and played terrible for the past two years. I have confidence in him, but I'm also recognizing of the fact that he was terrible yesterday and Cameron should have adjusted.

If Flacco continues to struggle, he'll be replaced. And if he fails, it will be entirely on his shoulders. The team and organization have built up everything around him that he needs. He's in an absolutely perfect situation that he should be able to excel in. I expect him to play very well for the remainder of the season. If he plays poorly, he'll be on the bench before too long.

You are woefully misinterpreting things if you think most people are blaming Flacco's struggles on Cameron. That's obviously not the case, and anybody who does think Flacco struggled due to Cameron is clearly wrong. Cameron's stupidity yesterday was independent of Flacco's awful performance. It was stupid to not recognize Joe was having a bad game and stick with the run game that was working quite well and also leading to the limited success Joe did have through play-action passing.

Edited by Mackus

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Sorry I just do not buy in.

Yesterday is not an aboration, its an exposing of the struggles Joe has continued to demonstrate.

I will agree Cam should have ran more but I am disappointed that he has to run more because you do not have the confidence in your QB to win you a close game.

The passing game wasn't shut down because Cincy play put of this world it was because Flacco locked into his first read, threw off his back foot, didn't feel the pressure and missed the open receiver.

But have let's blame Trembley, I mean Samuel, oops Cam.

Right, players do not perform so lets blame it on a guy on the sidelines.

And when the coach has the power to affect how the game is going and put the team in a better position to win and fails, let's bury our heads in the sand and blame only the quarterback!

See how stupid that sounds? That's your logic.

Since this is a thread about coaching anyway, why are you trying to turn it into another debate, let alone an either-or debate where one doesn't exist, about Flacco? You sound like you honestly have something against him, and even a denial will not convince me based on what you are actually saying.

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I'm very confident Joe can win most close games.

But guys can have off days. That's exactly what I think yesterday was. Just an absolutely terrible day for him. I don't buy the arguments some have made that Joe has looked and played terrible for the past two years. I have confidence in him, but I'm also recognizing of the fact that he was terrible yesterday and Cameron should have adjusted.

If Flacco continues to struggle, he'll be replaced. And if he fails, it will be entirely on his shoulders. The team and organization have built up everything around him that he needs. He's in an absolutely perfect situation that he should be able to excel in. I expect him to play very well for the remainder of the season. If he plays poorly, he'll be on the bench before too long.

You are woefully misinterpreting things if you think most people are blaming Flacco's struggles on Cameron. That's obviously not the case, and anybody who does think Flacco struggled due to Cameron is clearly wrong. Cameron's stupidity yesterday was independent of Flacco's awful performance. It was stupid to not recognize Joe was having a bad game and stick with the run game that was working quite well and also leading to the limited success Joe did have through play-action passing.

Woefully misinterpreting things, are you reading the same thread let me recap it for you.

Cameron didn’t do enough to put the Ravens in a position to exploit it.

We were both outplayed and outcoached yesterday.

We have never done well against Cover 2, whether it is Cincy, Pitt or Indy.

Cam Cameron and Flacco share equal blame for this IMO. Cameron can't adjust in his playcalling (evident yesterday) and Flacco can't make proper reads or throws.

Good recap...Definitely think Zimmer is outcoaching Cameron.

But where are the adjustments by Cameron?

And lastly, Cameron isn't doing any kind of adjustments.

Now, I ask you guys...What sense does this make? How can this be considered good game planning by Cameron?

How is that smart coaching?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13978407/flacco-not-alone-in-making-ravens-offense-a-horror-show

Essentially says the same thing. Cameron's play calling has been atrocious at times. It's one thing to say "I want the Ravens to be a passing offense", hell...I do too. It's another thing to stick with it when it's clearly not working.

Gotta agree with this point....we have clearly been outcoached in our last 3 losses to Cincy!

Coaches need to put their players in positions to win and we arent doing that with Flacco right now.

Instead Cam and the coaches played right into Zimmer's hands. Nothing has changed from last year. We still cant beat Cincy and Cam along with Flacco deserve a lot of the blame!!!!

It sure does seem like Zimmer has Cam Cameron's number.
. And THAT comes back to Cam Cameron.

. It didn't seem as if Cam Cameron did either. That's just IMO.

I've complained about Cam's offense going back to last season. .

Continuing to throw so much in the 4th quarter when we were always within a FG until there were under 4 minutes left was just an embarrassingly terrible unwillingness for Cameron to adapt to the reality of the game in front of him.

Cam was unwilling to change his playcalling.
Good teams focus on their strengths while showing as little of their weaknesses as possible.

So a team with three NFL starters at running back and a line that can run-block well should be doing that as much as possible and using their unfinished quarterback and solid receivers in ways that play off of the running game. To do otherwise is simply poor coaching' date='.... but if you want to win you have to play to your strengths.[/quote']

They hopefully got those guys to make the passing game more of a threat...But in no way should this team not be a 30+ carries team in a close game. To think otherwise is just a mis-understanding of how the team is built.
Cameron is going away from what works and putting Joe in a position where right now, he struggles to even remotely succeed. He doesn;t change anything up. He shows no ability to adapt.

Yesterday was about winning the game. It was up to the coaches to give us a better chance to do that as the game went on. They didn't..They continued to watch Joe fail. There isn't one intelligent and sensible reason why they didn't rely on the run moreso than they did yesterday.

That doesn't mean Joe is absolved from his crappy game. It just means Cameron should have done a better job as well.

Well, judging by how things went last year, Cameron continued to have the same poor game plan against a defense that isnt as good as the Ravens make it out to.

However, i do agree that we shouldn't have to dummy down for him. But sometimes, certain looks give QBs problems. Every QB has their own limitations...this appears to be one of Joe's.

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And when the coach has the power to affect how the game is going and put the team in a better position to win and fails, let's bury our heads in the sand and blame only the quarterback!

See how stupid that sounds? That's your logic.

Since this is a thread about coaching anyway, why are you trying to turn it into another debate, let alone an either-or debate where one doesn't exist, about Flacco? You sound like you honestly have something against him, and even a denial will not convince me based on what you are actually saying.

I will not try to convince you, you are correct.

I have a personal vandetta against anyone with a unibrow promoting Pizza-Hut. I only support two-browers pumping up Papa Johns.

Again my arguement since you do not want to scroll back one page is if the a team is built to win a title, you have given the team all the weapons and the Onwer has asked the QB to step up, when it becomes apparent in about 17 games of football the the QB does not adapt, demonstrates poor fundamentals, locks on one target, dances around, and doesn't feel the pressure you have to ask if he is the guy you think can win.

But we can personalize this if you like.

I also do not like oft-injured mormons who promote Debit Cards, stand by for a thread on that soon.

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Again my arguement ... is if the a team is built to win a title, you have given the team all the weapons and the Onwer has asked the QB to step up, when it becomes apparent in about 17 games of football the the QB does not adapt, demonstrates poor fundamentals, locks on one target, dances around, and doesn't feel the pressure you have to ask if he is the guy you think can win.

So the real question isn't if Flacco is those things. But in the next 15 games can learn not to do those things over the next 15 games. I think that's where the confusion comes from. Flacco isn't a finished product. He's not completed and he isn't what he will be at the end of the season.

Now if you believe that Flacco cannot overcome poor fundamentals, locking in on one target, dancing and feeling pressure then you bench him.

But two games is not enough for me to say with certainty that he can't fix those problems. And if he does, it's hard to argue that Bulger in one super bowl year isn't worth not screwing up his confidence in the long term for this year and the long term for the Ravens.

Short term goals are one thing. But we play the Browns next week. Let's see if Flacco can change. After 3 or 4 games of the same pattern (against NOT former defensive coordinators who helped build this defense) then you consider it.

If Bulger is such a bandaid it doesn't matter when he's applied. Clearly he's the solution in all forms and cannot be flawed either. Just remember, sometimes the conceived solution isn't the answer to the problem at hand.

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Joe played average in game 1. You're mad because we didn't score 27 points that game, I know...but we still won largely because of what Joe did in that game and you're ignoring it.

You must have some lofty expectations for an "average QB". I see an average QB as a 16 TD/14 INT kind of guy with yard totals in the low 3,000's.

Outside of a few bad games, Flacco has been average --> above average his entire career.

I don't want an average QB and never said I did. I want a top 5 QB. I want an offense that goes up and down the field. Flacco was supposed to be this guy and right now he looks like JaMarcus Russell. If you are ok with those numbers then that's you. That's putrid to me. That's boring Billick-ball QB numbers. A caretaker. I have no problems with those of you that are happy with that, I however would not be happy with that at all.

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I don't want an average QB and never said I did. I want a top 5 QB. I want an offense that goes up and down the field. Flacco was supposed to be this guy and right now he looks like JaMarcus Russell. If you are ok with those numbers then that's you. That's putrid to me. That's boring Billick-ball QB numbers. A caretaker. I have no problems with those of you that are happy with that, I however would not be happy with that at all.

Come on now, that's going too far. Even you have to admit Flacco isn't that bad. At the very least Joe wants to be a good QB.

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I don't want an average QB and never said I did. I want a top 5 QB. I want an offense that goes up and down the field. Flacco was supposed to be this guy and right now he looks like JaMarcus Russell. If you are ok with those numbers then that's you. That's putrid to me. That's boring Billick-ball QB numbers. A caretaker. I have no problems with those of you that are happy with that, I however would not be happy with that at all.

I also want an offense that goes up and down the field but you know what else I want to do? WIN!! If it means that we have to reign it in, based on the particular game, do it.

After all, look at how the team is constructed.....

-We have a stable of good running backs

-An offensive line that seems to run block better than pass block.

-Also, the current O line has a 2nd year player, learning LT at the NFL

level and our strating RG playing RT.

-We still have a top 5 defense.

-We have a QB beginning his 3rd season, with a host of new skill position players. Perhaps it will take some time for the offensive unit to gel?

Sorry to say this but I don't give a hoot how we win games. Call it Billick ball, or boring or whatever you want to call it but guess what, it ended in a Lombardi Trophy. And honestly, I grin from ear to ear whenever I watch America's Game or NFL films about that 2000 team because SB XXXV is ours, and no one can do a damn thing about it.

You know what Tom Brady's "pretty" 50 TD season ended in? A SB loss.

Peyton Manning and the high flying Colts continually came up short in search of a title until their defense (particularly Bob Sanders) and their running game carried them to the Lombardi Trophy in '06-'07.

A Tecmo Bowl offense doesn't matter a hill of beans to me unless we win.

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I also want an offense that goes up and down the field but you know what else I want to do? WIN!! If it means that we have to reign it in, based on the particular game, do it.

After all, look at how the team is constructed.....

-We have a stable of good running backs

-An offensive line that seems to run block better than pass block.

-Also, the current O line has a 2nd year player, learning LT at the NFL

level and our strating RG playing RT.

-We still have a top 5 defense.

-We have a QB beginning his 3rd season, with a host of new skill position players. Perhaps it will take some time for the offensive unit to gel?

Sorry to say this but I don't give a hoot how we win games. Call it Billick ball, or boring or whatever you want to call it but guess what, it ended in a Lombardi Trophy. And honestly, I grin from ear to ear whenever I watch America's Game or NFL films about that 2000 team because SB XXXV is ours, and no one can do a damn thing about it.

You know what Tom Brady's "pretty" 50 TD season ended in? A SB loss.

Peyton Manning and the high flying Colts continually came up short in search of a title until their defense (particularly Bob Sanders) and their running game carried them to the Lombardi Trophy in '06-'07.

A Tecmo Bowl offense doesn't matter a hill of beans to me unless we win.

This post is dead on.

The improvements at wide receiver were awesome and flashy and everything, but they may have disillusioned some that we should now wing the ball around like the Saints or Colts - despite the fact that everyone, regardless of whether or not they believe Joe will become an elite quarterback, acknowledges that he's not there yet.

The Ravens are at their best when the run : pass ratio is something like 35 : 25, or maybe 40 : 30 if they aren't turning the ball over so much.

The guys we added at wide receiver should only serve to enhance our efficiency on those 25-30 passing situations.

After two games, Joe has thrown the ball 77 times - on pace for 616 throws over the course of the season. Ben Roethlisberger has only thrown the ball 500 times once in his career.

It's out of whack, but it's only been two games. One of them we won because our commitment to the run, the other we lost because of our lack of it. I think as the season wears on, the offense will dramatically improve, so long as they don't forget what their bread and butter is - playing defense and running the football.

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Woefully misinterpreting things, are you reading the same thread let me recap it for you.
Yeah, you're hopelessly misinterpreting those posts.

Not one of those is saying the reason Joe played poorly is because of something Cameron did. You're clearly putting something there that isn't if you think those posts are saying that Flacco struggled because of something Cameron did.

Flacco had an awful game. Cameron didn't do anything to try and overcome that by throwing less and running more.

Flacco performed awfully and that was entirely his fault. Cameron, independently, did a very poor job of recognizing what the hell was going on right in front of his face and adjusting the gameplan by running more late in the game and taking the ball out off Joe's hands.

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I’ve rewatched the game three times since last night. I paired up what I saw with the utilizations that came out this morning and came away with a couple of conclusions. The Ravens did a poor job against the cover 2 yesterday. Flacco made some mistakes that might’ve been worse than his interceptions, and Cameron didn’t do enough to put the Ravens in a position to exploit it.

Yesterday, the Bengals worked out of the Cover-2 with the occasional shift to pure nickel. They went mostly man, but there were a couple of times that they might have been in a zone, I couldn’t tell. In man coverage, they played what is known as trailing man coverage. They let the WR release to the outside and take away the inside part of the field. A good example of this was Adam Jones’ interception when he was on Boldin.

They Ravens attacked this with a lot of crossing routes. DBs struggle with crossing routes in cover 2 man because the WRs can deepen the route and engage the safeties. This opens up holes that can be exploited with more underneath routes. The Bengals countered this by dropping their LBs in coverage in sort of a soft zone scheme. This caused the route to take longer to develop. Take a look at Flacco’s second interception. Boldin and TJ run a crossing route and are bracketed underneath by Dhani Jones and Maulauga and never turned for the ball. Hall maintains his assignment for the interception.

The Bengals made it tough on the Ravens by getting pressure up front without the need for added blitzes. This allowed them to hurry Flacco and drop more men in coverage.

The proper way to attack a cover-2 is to work out of the spread and send more men downfield. 3 WR sets aren’t enough and the Ravens didn’t go 4 or 5 wide enough. In a cover-2, the Ravens should’ve released the TE or RB more to the outside in an underneath package. They didn’t create enough hot reads to be successful yesterday.

There were two mistakes that Flacco made that, given the nature of the game, could’ve gone a long way. In the second quarter, the Ravens send 5 wide on a 3rd and 3. Flacco goes to a three step drop and lofts a pass to McGahee that falls incomplete. The Bengals didn’t anticipate the late shift and ended up doubling Willis and Flacco bailed them out. The Bengals were still in the cover two and there was likely a better option down field. My only assumption here is that this was a designed play and a poor one. The second mistake was the bubble screen pass to Boldin that resulted in a two yard loss. We should’ve immediately checkout of that. Not a huge mistake but one where Flacco needs to have a better understanding of what is in front of him.

The Ravens continually ran into the hands of the Bengals yesterday. I really can’t come up with a plausible reasoning for why they did this. We didn’t force the Bengals into any adjustments all game long. Getting more yardage in the running game yesterday could’ve had the Bengals switch back to a base defense and open up more plays downfield.

We were both outplayed and outcoached yesterday.

Haven't read the whole thread yet but I to went back and watched the games a couple of times last night as well. I can't get as technical as you or some of the other people who played the game. I'm just a fan watching the game. Anyway, here are some of my observations many of which you touched on.

- It was amazing how many times Cinci dropped their linebackers. They brought more than 5 guys maybe 3 times all game. Most of the time it was only the front 4 rushing. The few times they did bring 6+ guys Joe beat them. One was the Mason TD and the other was the pass deep down the middle the Houz dropped.

- I was amazed we didn't use play action more. When we did use it we were pretty successful. The TD drive to start the 2nd half we started at the 20 yard line we picked up 50 or so yards in 4 or 5 plays by running Rice and then hitting Dickson and Heap on some PA throws. There were some other good throws Joe made off of play action. You could see that the play action was freezing those dropping linebackers. On one play early in the 2nd quarter the safety bit hard and left Mason wide open down the right side but Joe looked left and never came back t the other side of the field. If we had used the combination of Rice and PA off of it more we win that game.

- On to Joe himself. The one thing I believe Joe needed to do was use his mobility better. He showed he can do it when he scrambled on the first drive to pick up a first down. He also showed it on the last play of the game where he threw the pick but he quickly moved up and his momentum was going forward as he threw. If he had been quicker to step up in the pocket or tke off he would have bought himself a few more precious seconds. The pocket awareness itself has improved from the end of last year. He seems to have a better feel for the pressure closing in and the ability to get the ball out. I think he only took 1 sack yesterday. Unfornately, it was the last drive of the game. He just needs to get quicker with his drop and when the pocket is clean move around in it better. Footwork has to get better. He doesn't really throw of his back foot as much as people claim but he does get lazy with his mechanics too often. He stands too tall and just kind of flicks the wrist instead of stepping into the throws. Gannon made a good observation on the first drive. Not enough flex in the knees.

- The offensive line struggled with a 4 man rush. They did a good job of not getting beat immediatedly and giving Joe some time but the Bengals were able to shed fairly quickly and pressure Joe. Some of that is Joe being slow back there as mentioned above but some of it is on the Oline too. Compare that to Brady last week against the Bengals where he is standing in the pocket patting the ball and progressing through reads for 4 or 5 seconds.

-Houz dropped 3 passes. All 3 were catchable and 2 of them should have been caught. The crucial one being the play before the 3rd interception on the tipped ball late in the 4th quarter. That was one where there was no excuse to drop it. He barely had to reach above his head and got two hands on the ball. I still think Clayton would have been a better fit for this team. At least early in the season. Lets remember that of all the WRs in preseason Joe seemed to have the most chemistry with Clayton. There is going to be an adjustment period to playing with 2 new WRs. Especially one that comes in right before week 1.

- Defense played very well but they missed on 3 Ints. Two of which would have either taking points off the board or had us in scoring position. Landry got his hands on one right before Cinci kicked their first field goal and Zibby dropped one right in his bread basket at the Bengals 30 late in the 2nd quarter. It looked like if he had caught it he may have got in for a TD. There were blockers in front and the left side looked open. I think he at least returns it inside the 15 yard line.

- We are playing more diciplined football. The 2 penalties by Ray and Suggs ultimately hurt. They both set up FGs but they were ticky tack calls at best. Neither was the case of those guys being stupid. Take those penalties away and I think we had 3 others for 15 yards. No holdings, no false starts and unbelievably no defensive holdings or PI. I believe we haven't had a PI or defensive holding called against us this year.

I guess there is two ways to look at it but that was a game that despite the 4 turnovers we should have won. We missed on a couple of big catches both offensively and defensively and had two BS penalties that put 6 points on the board for them.

Edited by ccbird

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We'll just have to disagree and that's fine. Joe has not played like an average QB this season and really hasn't since about halfway through last year. I watch a lot of teams in the NFL and he is certainly has played very poorly and would not rate as an average QB, especially against the better defenses where the numbers show how poor he has been.

You are right but how many QB's do look good against the better defenses? I doubt very many. Heck, even Peyton in that playoff game the Colts won against the Ravens in 2006 with a 15-6 score had zero TD passes and a rating of about 24! And Peyton has already been discussed as being considered possibly the best NFL QB ever right up there with Unitas and Montana! Sometimes you just have to give it (credit) to the defense of the opponent. Look what the Steelers just did to Vince Young. He was riding high from last season and looked like a whipped, beaten little boy after being manhandled badly by the Pittsburgh D.

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.

Look at the Texans. They are a passing team. Shaub had almost 5,000 yards passing last year. And what did he do in week 1? Handed off to Foster as he ran all over the Colts for 238 yards and 3 TD's. Just because they are a "passing team" they didn't try to force the pass because that's how they felt they had to win.

You go with what is working and yesterday the Ravens stuck with what wasn't working.

This post is dead on.

The improvements at wide receiver were awesome and flashy and everything, but they may have disillusioned some that we should now wing the ball around like the Saints or Colts - despite the fact that everyone, regardless of whether or not they believe Joe will become an elite quarterback, acknowledges that he's not there yet.

The Ravens are at their best when the run : pass ratio is something like 35 : 25, or maybe 40 : 30 if they aren't turning the ball over so much.

The guys we added at wide receiver should only serve to enhance our efficiency on those 25-30 passing situations.

After two games, Joe has thrown the ball 77 times - on pace for 616 throws over the course of the season. Ben Roethlisberger has only thrown the ball 500 times once in his career.

It's out of whack, but it's only been two games. One of them we won because our commitment to the run, the other we lost because of our lack of it. I think as the season wears on, the offense will dramatically improve, so long as they don't forget what their bread and butter is - playing defense and running the football.

I wanted to put these 2 posts together because they both hit home.

Balance is important because the run and the pass work off of each other. By achieving balance as an offense, you keep the defense off balance. Things like play action, running out of 4 WR sets or passing out of 2 TE, I formation are things you can do to give your offense the best opportunity to suceed.

Also, NMS makes a fantastic point about the Texans in Week 1. The Colts play the Tampa 2 and take away deep, middle routes. So what did Houston do....they adjusted, ran the football heavily and proceeded to stomp a mudhole in the Colts.

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I wanted to put these 2 posts together because they both hit home.

Balance is important because the run and the pass work off of each other. By achieving balance as an offense, you keep the defense off balance. Things like play action, running out of 4 WR sets or passing out of 2 TE, I formation are things you can do to give your offense the best opportunity to suceed.

Also, NMS makes a fantastic point about the Texans in Week 1. The Colts play the Tampa 2 and take away deep, middle routes. So what did Houston do....they adjusted, ran the football heavily and proceeded to stomp a mudhole in the Colts.

I don't think its unrealistic or unfair to expect the Ravens to pass the ball more considering the weapons we've added. Throwing more isn't a problem.

What was a problem was specific to the Week 2 game alone. Flacco was having a terrible game, and Cameron was too stubborn in insisting on sticking with the pass trying to get it working rather than going more heavily with the run which was both working and allowing us to run playaction which was the only times Joe actually was having success running the ball.

Its entirely reasonable to expect the Ravens to throw more than they have in previous years with Flacco at QB and to expect them to have more success when they do throw it. Flacco should be improving even further beyond what he's already established himself to be which is a pretty good quarterback and he's got a lot more weapons around him.

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Yeah, you're hopelessly misinterpreting those posts.

Not one of those is saying the reason Joe played poorly is because of something Cameron did. You're clearly putting something there that isn't if you think those posts are saying that Flacco struggled because of something Cameron did.

Flacco had an awful game. Cameron didn't do anything to try and overcome that by throwing less and running more.

Flacco performed awfully and that was entirely his fault. Cameron, independently, did a very poor job of recognizing what the hell was going on right in front of his face and adjusting the gameplan by running more late in the game and taking the ball out off Joe's hands.

No friend, you fail to see my point so you simplify the arguement to make yours.

You are blaming Cam for having the confidence that Flacco could adjust.

Your blaming Cam for the fact Flacco continues to struggle in many facets.

Your blaming Cam for calling Flacco's number putting the ball in his hands and asking him to win the game.

Hopefully Cam loses his confidence in Joe, runs more, changes the gameplan to suit his abilities, check downs and curls, and stops asking him to win the game for the team so you can be pleased.

I understand your point, I do, but it the coach asks the player to make a play and he can't you blame the coach, I blame the player.

Its a matter of expecting tFlacco to put this team on his shoulders and win the game or realizing Flacco is not that player and game planning otherwise.

I was hoping we had that in Flacco, I hoped with him getting the message after last year, getting him more weapons, bringing in Zorn, etc;Flacco could put this team on his back and win.

Instead Joe demonstrated last year's sturggles are not behind him and he should only be regarded as a game manager. Check down and hand the ball off.

That is not what I think the F.O., owner, Coaches have in mind but that is my opinion drawn from the additions of Boldin, Stallworth, two tight ends, Zorn, keeping Willis, Gaither, adding Zorn and more importantly Bulger signed to a big contract when we had ample backups.

If Flacco is not the answer then Next Man Up.

Its that simple to me, its a business and SB invested a lot into this team for this year.

Its not about yesterday, its about the path Flacco is on vs. the path the FO set for this team this year.

I hope this is rock bottom for Flacco, I hope he knocks that blank stare off his face and wants Cam to call his number 40 times.

I hope Flacco says in a close game, jump on my shoulders I will win this team.

I couldn't imagine taking the field with any other attitude, but if I was Cam, I would have to say to myself Joe is not who I thought he was and now I will change my gameplan and only ask him to manage until his 4th year, or 5th year or any year you feel is enough time to stop apoligizing for his experience.

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