24fps

I found the OH around the same time - during the 2003-2004 offseason looking for info on Vlad Guerrero who was rumored to be signing with Baltimore. Sadly that was not to be, but I ended up lurking for several years anyway. Those were the days before smartphones, twitter, even facebook. The amount of concentrated O's information then was a revelation and probably hard to imagine for some of the younger posters here. Congrats Frobby on 20 years and thanks for all the added value you've brought to the site.

Given the way the team valued flexibility in 2023, I don't believe Elias would be interested in a dedicated DH. Martinez only played 3 games in the OF since 2021.

Flexibility is good, but you also need to believe that the FO's analytics expertise extends to sizing up trade targets as well and some guys are definitely more preferable than others. If there's a trade target that's a good fit, I hope Elias doesn't hesitate to pay full value if he has to. The O's don't need that much, but I think one more good starter would be a real difference-maker for 2024.

Dodgers 10/700

Roch's column looked to me like him squeezing the last few bits out of the Winter Meetings rather than any concerted effort to "lower expectations". Nobody expected the O's to be in on guys like Snell in the first place. Is he signalling what he's reading between the lines? Maybe, but remember reporters/columnists sometimes have to file whether there's anything new to report or not.

I'm a big fan of different views, especially if they're not presented in an exceedingly patronizing tone as was the case with HuskerFan's contribution to the thread. I agree with your feeling that Tony has it about right and and the O's shortage of top pitching prospects make the few they have a little more valuable as a result, but using him in a trade for a demonstrably better starter (for example) is perfectly reasonable if it has to be. I'd rather he stay in the organization. I don't know what to make of Povich's Fangraphs ranking.

In their last Orioles Top 10, BA doesn't mention Povich at all and Tony-OH has him at 13. If he had suddenly skyrocketed up the organizational ranks to the point that he was considered too valuable to trade, you would think we we'd have heard something from a mainstream source by now, right? As for HuskerFan's credibility in general, I simply don't believe in vaguely sourced, quasi-inside information that has popped up out of nowhere on a message board.

Let's see, your info comes from the "Povich camp" which could be "a number of different people"... Nope, nothing cryptic about that at all. Look, credibility is immediately going to be an issue for anyone posting insider information and no amount of name-calling is going to have any impact. If anything, just the opposite.

Given how much time you're spending clarifying yourself, perhaps you would benefit from putting a few more words into your own mouth. This cryptic, mysterious insider shtick does nothing better than generate more questions. And it gets tiresome.

John Angelos certainly deserves full credit for hiring Mike Elias and letting him do what he thinks best. As for the rest, I'm more than happy to let history be the judge. But it's time to turn the page.

That's Twins, Cardinals, Mariners territory and over twice the Orioles active payroll for 2023. Which I'll take in a heartbeat if Elias is General Manager. Or maybe he's a hard-drinking, swashbuckling Master of the Universe whose sole purpose in this advanced stage of life is to make Steve Cohen look like a pretender. I think we don't know what his motives really are and the sensible thing to do is let thing play out and see. I suppose anything is possible, but I'm more than ready to close the book on the Angelos era come what may.

What do you reckon the maximum payroll he could run and still realize an annual profit?

Kaline also never played in the minors.

Unspeakably disrespectful to hatchets, no question. This thread - which began with some of the best news I've heard as an Orioles fan in a very long time - remains poised to erupt into a full-blown dumpster fire. I don't get it.

Unlikely unless a deal has been agreed to.

How great would that be? Hope the story's legit.

I don't believe Elias has been running around Nashville over the last couple of days taking up other team's time about starting pitching only to suddenly decide to throw the entire budget at a guy who's going to pitch 70 innings at most. $20 million AAV over multiple years could well be off the table at this point, but something like a Cease trade could very much still be possible IMO.

I think it's just a matter of time before Jerry Reinsdorf understands that the White Sox are more like the 2019 O's than a team that simply needs to reload. Fedde will come in handy if that turns out to be true.

I do too. Is there anything more fun than laughing at the Yankees?

Of course they are. I believe they'll wait for Montgomery, Snell and Ohtani to sign too if they can. But there is such a thing as waiting too long and all the teams that are trying to trade for Cease have players worth acquiring by the Sox. They'll overplay their hand if they get too cute.

God help all of us the the AL East if he ever sobers up.

That's okay, if everything goes to plan, they won't like facing Bradish and GrayRod back to back.

What if Means can’t go 180 IP? I suspect he will deliver half a good season which means Wells will get to pick up the other half. Whatever the details, I think it’s prudent to not count on a full season from Means in 2024.

The Orioles remain the best match for the White Sox. Presumably Elias has several irons in the fire for SP and would say no to matching a deal like this. As he should.

Get another good starter (Cease or similar) and this would be a pretty good pitching staff. I would be happy to start the season with this setup.