Pickles

He was horrendous. And I'll admit, I didn't realize it was that bad. And we should of course take more recent information as more important. However, excluding this season, their last 3-4 are pretty similar. And Franco is of course significantly younger. My point isn't really about Franco though. Or Harrison even. Rather, that these kinds of signings should definitely be explored, but they aren't a significant departure from the strategy of the last few years. We're just hoping maybe it works out a little bit better.

I know he's had a far more successful career, and a their 2021s are polar opposites, but isn't it like a coin flip if this guy is better than Franco next year? Or a hell of a lot more like a coin flip that we might want to admit?

Are their positional adjustments the same?

Makes me think of the 3 Rbi homerun.

Roberto Clemente too. It's almost as if- even HOFs- benefit from MiL play. Crazy.

That's fine. If someone wants to trade for him based on the idea that's he's overvalued because of his whip, or spider tack, they can get bent.

Two top 50. Or go away.

Bringing misery to others is the only thing that brings me joy.

If we look legit in 2024 without acquiring anything for Mullins, Means, or Mancini..... why trade them?

Yes. Now you're catching on.

It isn't impossible for them to trade Means and improve next year. It's just highly unlikely. When the market is unfavorable, you don't make the deal. That's how you "beat" the market. Means pitching like a top 10 pitcher in July gets you two top 50 prospects. So you wait. And if it never materializes, if he gets injured or regresses, what did you miss out on? Josh Bell (The prospect we received from the LAD for George Sherrill)? That won't kill your rebuild. Trading your best pitcher, and one of your best developmental successes, for nothing will.

I said when the idea came up this spring: If you even want to start the conversation its two top 50 global prospects. Then we'll figure out the rest. I'm not interested in a "reasonable" return. A "fair" return. If that's your offer, keep on walking. If we trade Means- and I'm not saying I'm unwilling, see above- I don't see how it is possible we improve next year.

You know, three months ago, I would have been inclined to disagree with this. But now this is basically my position too. If you've been watching him the last few months you have been able to watch him grow his approach in real time. He can hit. If he makes them throw him strikes, he can really hit. He's seemed to have figured that out. Outside of Mullins, Mountcastle establishing himself as a ML regular this year has to be high on the feel good story list.

In 2021, I have no doubt most would say Adley. In 2009? I bet answers would be different.

This is all fair. To say I have a preference for AR is completely defensible. To act as if they are in different categories of prospect, or that a preference for Wieters isn't reasonable, is not. The only thing in this post that surprises me is your contention that AR has more raw power. I would have gave the nod there to Wieters. They are/were very similar prospects in terms of value. Now that doesn't mean their ML careers will mirror each other. I think we all hope that AR has a better career than Wieters. But as you say, that's no guarantee. And we'll get to start seeing it next year.

You're just a sad, bitter little man. My thoughts turn to Norm Macdonald. Freshly passed away. The most brilliant comedian I believe I'll ever see. Dead of cancer. Which he hid from the world. And carried himself. Norm didn't lose his battle with cancer. It was a draw at least. And I'm not a failed athlete. I didn't make a million dollars, but I carry with me what I learned.

I actually prefer we lose this way than the typical down 5-0 in the 2nd way which we have so perfected this year. At least this way I get to watch a few innings of baseball first.

Yes. I'm sorry to have mislead you so badly and to have used such hyperbolic language.

I find it hard to believe that you miss much on this site. I believe full Wieters at-bats were posted in the Minors sections by Just D. Again, I recall the playoffs being livestreamed. Certainly I remember the same kind of video highlights available here as w Adley. I think this is you inventing narratives in your head. You weren't "right" about Wieters. He won GGs, went to All-Star games, and received MVP votes, and was instrumental in turning this franchise around. Is that what you predicted? Just exactly what amazing prediction did you make regarding Wieters? And when? That he'd win GGs, and go to All-Star games, but not be.......... Johnny Bench?...... because he had a "slow bat" and was "unathletic?" You're a real prophet. And as far as, "Why do I care?" "Why do you care if I care?" This is a discussion board. If you don't want feedback, then don't discuss. And, of course, that reveals much about you: You don't want to discuss. You want to lecture. I return to the investment analogy. We are all invested in this team. We are all shareholders in that sense. And that is what we argue about mostly. I think you are making bad presumptions. And I want to say so. So I will.

The more accurate term is probably severe dislocation. And yes. Monthly.

I'd say no. I'd say stating that AR and MW were similarly valued prospects is not really an opinion. It's a fact. That's a far different thing than stating that AR is clearly a better prospect. Because that's revisionism. Because it's based on nothing but hindsight. And retreating into "to me" when making such a claim is really a dodge from the revisionism.

You boys are severely underpaid. LOL.

It was just basically in a state of permanent disfigurement for two summers. Catching messes your fingers, hands, and wrists up. Guess what you need to hit?

You just can't walk away- even when given the opportunity. One guy lukewarmly agrees with you and you just have to crow about it from the rooftops. Can't make this up indeed. I hope Tony chimes in. He is somebody who can shed some light on this. He'd be very qualified- although no man- even your dear Callis- is an oracle. I repeat what I said about them as prospects. If you're looking solely at tools as evaluated as MiLers, Adley gets the advantage in glove and speed. Wieters in power, arm, and hit tool. My sole point was anyone who is claiming AR is a better prospect than MW was, is wrong. To say they're similar prospects, I wouldn't argue. But to claim AR is superior, is just false. I'll let Tony add to that if he wants to. He's about the only person who could sway me much on that statement. Now in regards to what that looks like at the ML level, I would agree that MW's ML career was on the low end of the spectrum of probabilities for what it might have looked like. Nowhere near the lowest, but I would certainly say under the 50th percentile. So yeah, it's easy to say AR probably surpasses MW's career- even though they're in the same category prospect wise. But that doesn't mean he's automatically going to go to the 96% and be Johnny Bench- even with the caveat of "only" for 3-5 years. And if you want a 130+ OPS with GG C defense for 130 games a night, then yes, you're talking about 6+ WAR and Johnny Bench. That's extremely rare. Me and you have seen it with our own eyes twice, without needles being involved. You have NO idea the physical toll that it takes to catch and produce like that. You mock me for having a far greater understanding of it, simply because I try to educate you. I can't tell you what to be disappointed in or not. But I can tell you what is reasonable. I make the analogy of investing. Every investment is a range of probable outcomes. Expecting, and being disappointed with less that the 90% positive outcome, is unreasonable. The fact that all of this is based solely on your faith in your own prescience makes it all that much less convincing. If you really want to go round and round answer me these two questions: 1) Why didn't you call out Wieter's "slow bat" and "lack of athleticism" when he was hitting .355 at Bowie? You claim you never saw him in the minors? I saw dozens and dozens of his highlights on this website alone. I even believe they live streamed the Bowie playoffs that year on this website. Surely you saw him play plenty in the MiLs, and you never once said "slow bat?" Why? 2) Were you or were you not catching vapors 4 months ago about AR's supposed "slow bat" when he struggled a bit out of the gate at Bowie this year? So how many times exactly have you seen him this year? How many times did it take for you to sing a different tune?

If you're looking solely at tools as evaluated as MiLers, Adley gets the advantage in glove and speed. Wieters in power, arm, and hit tool. My sole point was anyone who is claiming AR is a better prospect than MW was, is wrong. To say they're similar prospects, I wouldn't argue. But to claim AR is superior, is just false. Of course, some, like SG, will add the caveat "to me." Well, I can't argue that, because that's a subjective opinion. I question how much of that comes from hindsight. And I question exactly what it's based on- other than hindsight.