Pickles

Well, maybe they do. I think they're wrong, but whatever. It doesn't really detract from my point. The Orioles were able to significantly upgrade their rotation and the best prospect they lost was Joey Ortiz. They were not forced to part with one of the top 5 outfielder picks, nor did they have to go into their top 3. I said they should be able to do that, and they were.

Until the Sox actually materialize a better prospect than Ortiz or Hall for Cease, then I don't think it is possible to say the O's definitely have to beat that package. We'll see what they get when they finally move Cease. As I predicted so long ago, they're going to be disappointed.

Two years of Cease may be more valuable than Burnes. That could be argued either way. Burnes is definitely the better pitcher but two years is better than one. Of course, a lot of it is dependent on things we don't know: Namely, which Cease shows up from year to year. I know what people, including yourself, were willing to do for Cease. My point is that Elias got a better pitcher while giving up less than most were willing to. Sure it's for one year and not two, but tbh, because of where we are competitively, I'd take the better pitcher with the shorter window.

And yeah, this is all fine. My point isn't necessarily that Ortiz is more valuable than Hall, though I certainly think he is, or even that the Brewers value Ortiz more than Hall, which appears maybe they don't. My point is that you didn't have to give up a better prospect than Joey Ortiz to significantly upgrade the rotation. I said that 300 pages ago, and that proved to be true.

Well, in the end of the day, we got the better pitcher while giving up lesser prospects. Now the years might change the equation some, but my point 300 pages has so far held to be true: The White Sox won't receive a significantly better prospect as a headliner than Joey Ortiz for Cease. Edit: Unless you want to argue that Hall is equivalent in value to Cowser. You could make that case, but I don't think it's a strong one. Also important to note, most were willing to add to Cowser/Ortiz, many significantly, i.e. Povich. Elias played the waiting game and it worked out well for the Orioles.

I don't really consider Hall a prospect though I think he might still technically classify as one. I think Ortiz was the more valuable piece.

Many such cases.

Dude should be ecstatically happy. He got what we wants!

My bigger point is that not only were the WS deranged even mentioning the names Basallo and Mayo, they were equally deluded about Cowser and Kjerstad. Now, noone here was ever going to move Basallo or Mayo, but almost everyone was willing to give a least Cowser AND Ortiz, and MORE!, for Cease. It was always an aburd overpay, and I'm glad that Elias has more discipline than the majority of this board.

It might be an open question as to who Mil values more- I still think Ortiz- but there's no doubt Ortiz was the headlining prospect.

I think they should start exploring prospect for prospect trades of guys like Stowers, Vavra, maybe Norby. Trade them for younger pitching prospects. But I'm not sure I'd classify that as a big move.

Hey, the burden of being right all the time is a real load. I'm sure you have little experience with such problems, but the compensation is getting to toot your own horn once everyone else catches up.

I said 300 pages ago Joey Ortiz was good enough to headline a deal for a rotation upgrade. Now the White Sox can go play around with their 19 year old pitchers and f off.

I might not have built a bridge, but unlike you I haven't completed the joke.

Who called it?

Not to toot my own horn, but how adamant have I been that Ortiz would be the headliner and they wouldn't go above that? And how right have I proven to be?

Oh, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It was exactly what I was thinking.

Reasonable speculation imo.

I imagine that would have been part of the negotiation.

1) I came to make a joke: It's the new market inefficiency. 2) But in seriousness: I don't think it's fair to lump Trevor Bauer and this guy together.

I question how diverse this ownership group is anyway. Seems like the primary owners are all rich, white, Jewish guys, and Cal Ripken.

Maybe it was his roid rage.

He should have plenty of cash to self-fund this now. If he's such a great businessman, then he should take the hundreds of millions he's getting in cash and found and operate a profitable business that doesn't require government handouts.

I want Frobby to remind us of all the details, but I have a vague memory of that.

That brings a vague memory. @Frobby Surely you remember this?