banks703

It’s three games. He will be fine. Plowing through the minor leagues doesn’t matter as much as most of us think, with respect to having success in Major League Baseball. The gap in talent from AAA to the Majors is so much wider than what any other minors/amateur to “the league”. It really is hard to fathom. The only comparison that I can make is to the college kids who turned pro during Tiger Woods’s heyday. Going from playing competitive college golf to playing Tiger Woods is basically what these guys do when they jump from AAA to MLB. I don’t think most of us comprehend just how absurdly talented Major League players are. I have been as critical of JH as anyone (his prospect as a SS) but he’s going to be fine at the plate. His timing is off just a little bit and he’s seen some really filthy pitching thus far. The whiffs will tail off once he settles in (admittedly he does look a little uncomfortable right now on off-speed stuff but he’s not getting sped up which is good). He’s going to hit, a lot. It wouldn’t shock me to see him run off a 5-5 with a couple of walks his next two games. He’s too good of a hitter to struggle. And damn, the recencyism of us. Gunnar struggled last year. Adley the year before. JH is going to be fine and by year’s end I bet he’s being talked about as a top ten 2B in MLB.

Personally, I’ve always preferred CC to HK but this I digress. I’m glad that they didn’t have to move CC for pitching. I’m glad they moved Joey for pitching since he was the odd-man out and wasting away in Norfolk but I’m happy they didn’t move both Joey and CC for pitching. Perhaps 24 is about grooming CC for Ant’s departure. We shall see. I don’t see HK as a long term outfield solution. Might as well continue to use ROH out there.

I legit LOL'd at this

I am somewhat surprised by all of who were demoted but not shocked. I thought for sure that Holliday would be the starting 2B on OD.

I haven’t read the rest of this thread but this is what I have hoped to read/hear all offseason. Setting aside whatever longterm debate between Gunnar/Holliday at SS that will undoubtedly reemerge, for this year and the next couple of years, this is the best thing for the player AND for the O’s. Gunnar should have won the UTL GG last year. He split his time between 3B and SS and was still very good at SS. To me, he looks like he has another level on defense that he can climb if he is able to focus solely on one position. I know the arguments about the potential platinum level 3B play but I’m not sure he’s quite that good there. I believe that he can be equally good as a longterm SS but can probably be more effective there than as a 3B. To me, this is excellent news and something that I was hoping would happen.

I’m on record for like eight or nine months now stating that I think he will be the 2024 OD starter at 2B but he is not a plus defender there. He’s far more equipped to be a better defensive 2B than he what profiles on D as a SS but he’s not remotely a plus defender today. He’s where he is because of his bat. Can he become a plus defender at 2B? I think he has a better chance of that than as a SS but time will tell. Him sticking at 2B is the best case scenario for the O’s because it most likely means that Mayo is good enough to play a Major League 3B.

During the season I brought up Gunnar’s penchant for taking the DP himself and was really impressed when you hit me with these numbers (both that he lead the league in like half the innings played and that you were able to find that stat). Still impressed with both.

This is correct. He doesn’t HAVE to be Ozzie Smith out there if they decide to move him to SS but he will be an underwhelming defender there. That is and has been my point. Will he improve? Yes of course. He’s 20 years old. But he will not be the best defensive option on the team at the most important infield position and for a team like the O’s who have prioritized defense (especially up the middle) I just don’t see them taking the hit there defensively when there are better options. Could I be wrong? Sure. They don’t pay me for my opinions but we will see. He looks better to me as a 2B and again, I don’t rule out a move to the OF.

This 100%

Dude, I can’t. LOL.

I don’t have any. I’m going off of the 25+ games that I watched him play this last year. I’m sure there is enough video out there if you look for it. Not to be a putz to you but that’s just not something that I’m going to do. We’ll see him play during ST. I’m sure that more will see what I’ve described. I think the contention is that if he doesn’t end up as a SS he’s somehow a lesser player. I disagree. I think he’s Robinson Cano and paired with Gunnar, they’re going to be a ridiculous offensive tandem up the middle. He will get better with reps, time, maturity, etc. all of the things that I have agreed with as it pertains to his development but I just don’t see him as a good defensive SS. Much better suited for 2B in my opinion but we’ll see. Elias and Hyde and company obviously know more. It’s only a good thing if he grows into an adequate SS. It’s not like I’m rooting against him there.

LOL Sure thing, pal. Remember when I tried to get you to put your mouth where your keyboard mouth is and make a ban bet with you that he would end up at second? Crickets there if I recall.

Right right. Just like no one else was saying that he would end up playing 2B when I was posting that almost a year back. 2B is where I think he is best suited given his profile. But we shall see. Behind EBJ, Cowser is probably the next best CF prospect in their system and while I am a very strong advocate for CC as a CFer, he has to prove that he can man Center in big league ballparks with the third deck. I think he will be fine but we shall see. JH’s maybe their next best athlete in their system behind EBJ. I have no doubt that he could play the outfield, especially if he begins learning it now at only 20 years old. Pin this post of yours and let’s revisit in two years.

I have been suggesting that a move to the OF is still not out of the question for him. I think his tools may even play up out there in Center. If it's 2026 and EBJ has not broken into the lineup as the starting CFer, I think it's a very real possibility that they explore JH out in Center.

It’s all of the other things for me when it comes to where he ultimately ends up long-term. I just see the range being a factor, the stiff hips, the inability to cut off in the betweeners, not being comfortable or fluid fielding to his hand side, etc etc. the list goes on for why I think he’s just better suited for 2B, even if Gunnar eventually outgrows third, which I am not convinced that he does but time will tell. I don’t think that it devalues JH if he ends up a career 2B. I see a Robinson Cano career for him, which, would be pretty damn amazing and make him a HoF player in my eyes. There’s a lot to like about him as a 20 year old prospect (obviously) but I just don’t see the physical makeup for an ideal ML SS, especially when the O’s have prioritized defense at the position and have internal options who are far and away better defensively there. He’s going to improve but I just don’t see him ever being a good defensive SS.

I happened upon a quote (and I failed to find it for @Frobby sometime ago but the quote was something along the lines that he grew up playing 2B and felt most comfortable there and that he still considers himself a good 2B despite having played SS the last few years. I believe that quote was taken from him prior to him being drafted but again, I had to stop citing it because I can't find it.

I have stated that I believe that he will improve. 100% I think he will improve but I also do not believe that he is ever going to be the best defensive option at the position and on a team like the O's who have gone out of their way to prioritize defense up the middle, I just don't see him being the guy there unless they give him the Manny treatment at the end of his tenure with the O's and potentially market him to other teams as a SS for trade value. Eventually I think they can they stick him there if they absolutely have to do so and he won't butcher the position but he's not going to be a good defender. That's my feeling. Perhaps they eventually can live with the subpar D there if it increases his trade value when the time comes. Maybe he will shock me and improve enough to be good there. I doubt it...although David Eckstein had a long career as a SS in the majors despite MAJOR physical limitations and generally poor defense as a SS.. and he was not half the offensive player that JH is going to grow into.

The point is that Gunnar is far and away the superior defender at the more premier defensive position. They would not move Gunnar to a less important position is my point and valid.

Just as you suggest that I am overlooking things, I think you are overlooking the fact that Gunnar split his time between 3B and SS last year. He's now had an entire offseason to prepare as the SS, came to camp knowing that he will be the starting SS, etc. I'm with Cal on the idea of limiting how much Gunnar moves about the infield. Give me an entire year of Gunnar at SS and I bet he's in the running for a GG. Hell, he should have won it for Utility last year.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and despite my bickering with him, I do value his perspective on things though I almost exclusively disagree with him. JH is going to hit from Day 1 with bat-to-ball skills that the O's have maybe never had in their org...ever. That's obviously saying a lot but the kid is going to produce top tier offensive seasons whether his feet are in the dirt on the left or the right side of the infield, playing CF, super utility, selling peanuts or cleaning the toilets. His defense doesn't have a lot of influence on his prospect ranking. The kid is a stud with the stick, plain and simple. He would still be extremely highly ranked for his incredibly mature offensive game regardless of his future position.

I think it's more that we we're just refusing to acknowledge that we might be wrong about something. Yoan Moncada was briefly ranked #1 as a 2B in 2016.

In that world, the Orioles have no other players in their system that can play on the left side of the infield and in the event of that, they would still put Holliday at third with Gunnar staying at SS. You can keep throwing out stuff until it lands on something that supports your position in this debate if you want but only time will tell. The question is (and I've stated this recently as well) whether Mayo's defense can be good enough at third. An IF of Mayo, Gunnar, JH and Basallo with Adley behind the plate could very well be their best alignment both offensively and defensively for a three or four year stretch, perhaps longer if they extend Adley.

Right.. but JH will only be 26 in 6 years. As someone in my late 30's, that makes me feel old.

Sticking to the Prospect Ranking is so absurd. What does he or the O's get by him or Gunnar or Adley being ranked number 1? Judge was the 53 ranked prospect in 2015. I'd say he turned out alright for being just the 53rd highest ranked guy that year.

They're there. Go look for yourself. I'm not your assistant.