Are the O's a third place finisher?

[Sports Guy]

Really you're already talking about 2012, in a discussion about the O's finishing in 3rd place in 2010 and we haven't played a single game.

A single minor leaguer hasn't improved or regressed. Britton hasn't thrown a pitch in the majors yet. Free agency doesn't roll around for another 6 moths for 2012.

You're in such a rush to bash something that is so far in the future, I just don't get how/why it's part of this thread.

If the O's finish in 3rd place as Frobby and others have said here it's going to come on the heels of our pitching. If that comes in the form of Tillman rounding out and Britton getting it done in the majors I'd be hard pressed to say this team will regress to 5th place no matter what next year.

But seriously...if we can't bash AM for his 2011 moves, let's get on him for 2012 already!

I did address the question and added that I don't think we are a third place team in 2012 right now...I was further asked to explain, so I did..Don't like it? Don't care.

[Sports Guy]

So, you would put down money assuming that the team just totally ignores positions of need (due to expiring contracts) leading into 2012? Is that really rational?

What?

P.S. Thanks for the negative reputation, Sports Guy! "what a stupid way to look at things."

And you should understand why I did that...After giving me neg rep for the dumbest reason I have ever seen and then, doing the same thing to Moose(?), I have been waiting for you to post something I disagreed with to do the same thing to you. Yes, that is childish but no i don't care. I don't really care about rep but when someone who barely posts cowardly neg reps you for no good reason, then I will get you back.

Oh and the comment I left you is basically the same comment you left me.

[Crazysilver03]

So, you would put down money assuming that the team just totally ignores positions of need (due to expiring contracts) leading into 2012? Is that really rational?

P.S. Thanks for the negative reputation, Sports Guy! "what a stupid way to look at things."

I like you, too!

I think you're misconstruing my reaction. I saw it as a mistake, and being the 'precise' guy that I am, tapped ChaosLex about it. I correct out of a desire for accuracy, not giving someone 'comeuppance.'

He then thought it was so important for a single point to be deducted from the thousands he has accumulated that he had to bring it into this thread and call me out publicly for it. Maybe that's uptight? I sort of think so.

As for the overall assessment, I am worried that this team isn't set up well for 2012 AS OF RIGHT NOW. Tampa, Boston, and Toronto have all positioned themselves well for the future, with very good farm systems and several picks in the upcoming draft. As of right now, the Orioles have a lackluster farm system with tons of question marks and the need for a lot of things to go right.

Now hopefully we have several players break out and this whole position becomes moot.

[Crazysilver03]

If I were to place a bet, I would place a bet on the Orioles finishing 4th. I think 3rd or 5th is possible.

But that is just for 2011.

If I were placing a bet right now for where they finish in 2012, I would bet on 5th place.

Submitting negative reputation is quicker, and I didn't feel so bad about it because it was a mistake.

And as for the joke; he just got it wrong.

What is the 'mistake' in SG's post?

[CompuCoach]

What?

You said you would "bet," homeboy. My bad, I presumed that actually meant you'd be willing to put money down on that. I guess I'm just accustomed to gambling.

Even still, I think it's a stretch to be predicting the success (or lack thereof) for a team whose status going forward is contingent on the performance of a lot of young players (whom as of yet could grow or regress this season), and presuming they don't make any transactions between now and then.

And you should understand why I did that...After giving me neg rep for the dumbest reason I have ever seen and then, doing the same thing to Moose, I have been waiting for you to post something I disagreed with to do the same thing to you. Yes, that is childish but no i don't care. I don't really care about rep but when someone who barely posts cowardly neg reps you for no good reason, then I will get you back.

I remember and actually regret the one I gave to Moose. He seems like a decent guy.

I can't remember what I gave for you. Feel free to enlighten me (private message is probably best).

[CompuCoach]

What is the 'mistake' in SG's post?

He's talking about some post (not in this thread) that I don't remember.

And as for the quote on being uptight, I agree in principle that it is, but since I've already been made out to be the 'bad guy who gives reputation for dubious reasons,' I was of the mind to try to point out that there are worse instances than what happened with Lex (that aren't perpetrated by me). Turns out it was more about revenge, so, go figure; had I known already I wouldn't have pointed it out.

As for your actual reply to my post, I think a lot of what they do going forward is predicated on the success of this year's installment of the team. MacPhail is conservative, as we all know, and if 'the time is right' in his opinion (a successful 2011 campaign with significant progression) then he very well may make a move that will resonate over the long-term. I think the emphasis on short-term moves is intentional and not necessarily an oversight; maintaining flexibility while the core of the team has yet to really come together.

[Sports Guy]

You said you would "bet," homeboy. My bad, I presumed that actually meant you'd be willing to put money down on that. I guess I'm just accustomed to gambling.

Oh ok...It has nothing to do with them not meeting needs. It has everything to do with them not doing enough, their philosophies and how the other teams in the division are operating.

Oh and you didn't like how I graded the offseason so you negged repped me.

[Sports Guy]

He's talking about some post (not in this thread) that I don't remember.

And as for the quote on being uptight, I agree in principle that it is, but since I've already been made out to be the 'bad guy who gives reputation for dubious reasons,' I was of the mind to try to point out that there are worse instances than what happened with Lex (that aren't perpetrated by me). Turns out it was more about revenge, so, go figure; had I known already I wouldn't have pointed it out.

It is one thing to give neg rep out for poor reasons..It is another thing to be someone who does that and never really posts. Not saying you need to be on here all the time but if you are going to deduct from someone for their reasoning, yet you sit there and provide none of your own, its pretty cowardly IMO.

Oh well, enough about this...Back to the topic.

[webbrick2010]

Starting pitching is major weakness, which will cause bullpen to melt down.

Banking on the health of Roberts, Markakis reversing a 3 year down trend, Hardy's health, Reynold's a .198 hitter, Felix Pie and his .596 OPS in DR Winterball + another shoulder injury, Weiters finding bat speed, Jones finding a batting eye.

This is the very definition of a last place team.

[flashjordnk]

As for the overall assessment, I am worried that this team isn't set up well for 2012 AS OF RIGHT NOW. Tampa, Boston, and Toronto have all positioned themselves well for the future, with very good farm systems and several picks in the upcoming draft. As of right now, the Orioles have a lackluster farm system with tons of question marks and the need for a lot of things to go right.

Now hopefully we have several players break out and this whole position becomes moot.

Isn't this kind of why we play the 2011 season before we analyze 2012. Why would we analyze how we're set up for next year without seeing the growth of our next season?

This seems short sighted and more specifically obsession oriented from a person who always wants to point out the negatives in everything.

Yeah we could be really poorly set up for 2012, or we could end up being in really good shape for 2012. I'm just tired of SG ranting about the same stuff all the time. We all are aware of his feelings for 2012, let's those who want to talk about 2011 do so in a thread designed for that.

[srock]

Am I the only one that thinks the aging Yankees are no guarantee for second?

I agree with you. I think a probability curve says the MFY are the most likely to finish 2nd, but the discrepancy between them, us, Tampa, and Toronto aren't particularly large.

Most likely standings:

Boston

MFY

Tampa

Baltimore

Toronto

But 2-5 could be any order and I suspect won't be separated by more then a dozen games.

Outside of Boston, the AL East is a legitimate toss up in 2011. At least on paper in January.

[Sports Guy]

Isn't this kind of why we play the 2011 season before we analyze 2012. Why would we analyze how we're set up for next year without seeing the growth of our next season?

Who is analyzing anything? All that has been said is the other teams look to have a better long term future than the O's as of right now. I don't see how you can intelligently question that. You are making this out to be way more than it is but hey, its what you do, so whatever.

This seems short sighted and more specifically obsession oriented from a person who always wants to point out the negatives in everything.

Short sighted is ignoring the long term.

Yeah we could be really poorly set up for 2012, or we could end up being in really good shape for 2012. I'm just tired of SG ranting about the same stuff all the time. We all are aware of his feelings for 2012, let's those who want to talk about 2011 do so in a thread designed for that.

Then put me on ignore and stop crying. I am tired of your pollyanna, everything is great attitude..so, can you stop that too? I made one comment and was asked to explain it, so I did. This is a message board, sometimes things are going to go other directions from the point of the thread, like your pointless ranting in this thread.

Oh I know, why not start another thread about how you don't like the Ravens secondary..speaking of broken records.

[ShaneDawg85]

Starting pitching is major weakness, which will cause bullpen to melt down.

Banking on the health of Roberts, Markakis reversing a 3 year down trend, Hardy's health, Reynold's a .198 hitter, Felix Pie and his .596 OPS in DR Winterball + another shoulder injury, Weiters finding bat speed, Jones finding a batting eye.

This is the very definition of a last place team.

Please do explain how starting pitching is a weakness, and the relevance of Reynolds hitting .198, when it's been analyzed about a thousand times the value he had even with such a low number, and the fact that you don't need a high batting average to be a successful hitter.

[DrungoHazewood]

Please do explain how starting pitching is a weakness, and the relevance of Reynolds hitting .198, when it's been analyzed about a thousand times the value he had even with such a low number, and the fact that you don't need a high batting average to be a successful hitter.

He wasn't trying to give an objective assessment of the O's prospects for 2011, he was presenting a worst-case scenario. That's what he does - sometimes it's nice to have losing's version of Cindy, just for perspective.

[Who's On 1st]

In a Word! YES! :scratchchinhmm:

I think they can be. :thumbsup1: