O's told vlad has a 8m deal on table i wouldn't sign him now

[ChaosLex]

What a load.

[EtotheKallday17]

That is all.

[El Gordo]

Yeah, so could Chris Singleton. People know he's a DH. He's also a legitimate MOO hitter. We need one of those. We already have outfielders. That makes him more valuable to us, unless we are overestimating our current roster, and putting TOO much faith in our trade acquisitions to all stay healthy and rebound. Which we are, IMO.

According to Fangraphs calculations, Vlad was worth $10.3 million last season; Damon was worth $7.5 million. That said, Damon has been worth more over the past three seasons, so I'll give you that.

Point being, $8 million isn't an outrageous sum, really. I think the problem with a negotiating tactic like AM's here is that he's trying to take advantage, which is a form of negotiating in bad faith. When a player has limited options, you don't rub his nose in it. If you really want him on your team, you make a deal he can take proudly (offer $4 plus incentives to $8, say)...

You work with him, you get creative. If Vlad took $2 million, say, he would really be embarrassed in front of his colleagues. That's my take. He's worth less than half of what Gregg is worth to this team? That's flat-out ridiculous, IMO. Regardless, I really need to enter a 12-step program for people who cannot stop posting about, and defending, Vlad. I've got a problem.

We all know Vlad is a proud man. Why not, for once, just pay the guy decently and get on with it? Why make everything so painful? That's how AM tends to work... slowly... painfully... high-risk signings...

Since you're willing to cite Fangraphs, let me point out that they had Thome worth 3.6 WAR and $14.6MM last year, and he only got 3MM. Are the Twins disrespecting this future HOFer too?:rolleyestf:

[Bradysburns]

Since you're willing to cite Fangraphs, let me point out that they had Thome worth 3.6 WAR and $14.6MM last year, and he only got 3MM. Are the Twins disrespecting this future HOFer too?:rolleyestf:

Touche. I'm not saying Fangraphs is 100% accurate. Of course it's not. But Damon received about 70% of last year's FG value... and Vlad would be accepting about 20%. As for Thome, his FG value appears to be absurdly inflated for a guy who played a half-season and had about half he RBI that Vlad had in 2010.

And just being real: The Twins weren't facing any similar hurdles to getting a deal done: unfamiliarity, lack of Spanish speakers, 14 years of embarrassing baseball, etc., ad infinitum.

But I know you can come back with stats that just as compellingly disprove my points... so I tip my hat to you.

At the end of the day, I would say: AM can measure his success in this situation by whether he got his man or not... not how badly he screwed his man in the process. I mean, if he fails to sign a MOO hitter when going up against virtually NO competition... how can we possibly expect AM to ever win the bidding for a prime free agent... ever?

[Bradysburns]

I will never support signing an already-multimillionaire to an inflated deal (sans-competition) to satiate said millionaire's pride.

IMO, arguing otherwise borders on shameful.

As has been said many, many times already...teams aren't falling all over themselves to sign Vlad. His market is limited. As you pointed out, the O's have already committed a considerable amount of money to high(er) risk signings. If Vlad wants to play here, he may do so for the amount of money the market dictates he's owed. My Baltimore pride, however, doesn't think the Orioles should bid against themselves for the services of an aging vet who's already cashed plenty of exorbitant checks over the course of his career.

It sounds like you begrudge him the money he's earned as one of the best players of his generation. I don't get that.

But step back for a second and think about this situation, or what's being reported as the situation.

You have a guy with virtually no other options. You have a GM who is competing against virtually nobody for this player's services.

If AM cannot beat... well... nobody for Vlad's services, it really makes me wonder about his flexibility and creativity on the negotiating front.

[boog26]

It sounds like you begrudge him the money he's earned as one of the best players of his generation. I don't get that.

But step back for a second and think about this situation, or what's being reported as the situation.

You have a guy with virtually no other options. You have a GM who is competing against virtually nobody for this player's services.

If AM cannot beat... well... nobody for Vlad's services, it really makes me wonder about his flexibility and creativity on the negotiating front.

Umm... if AM is not bidding against anyone, it sounds like he is simply unwilling to be raped. Isn't that a good thing?

[MrOrange82]

It sounds like you begrudge him the money he's earned as one of the best players of his generation. I don't get that.

But step back for a second and think about this situation, or what's being reported as the situation.

You have a guy with virtually no other options. You have a GM who is competing against virtually nobody for this player's services.

If AM cannot beat... well... nobody for Vlad's services, it really makes me wonder about his flexibility and creativity on the negotiating front.

No...I take offense at the idea that the "pride" compromised by an extra 1-2 million dollars merits placing the Orioles in the absurd position of bidding against themselves for a player no other team seems over-eager to sign.

Vlad has been given his due for what he's done in the past. That money's in the bank.

You choose to look at it as though the Orioles are insulting Vlad by refusing to up their offer, given Vlad's career accomplishments. What about the 29 other teams that, apparently, have given him no offers at all? Vlad's potentially being insulted because the O's are "lowballing" him? Lowballing him when other teams aren't even bidding? And somehow AM is to blame should the O's fail to sign him?

OK, I could see the "failure" argument coming into play if MacPhail backtracks and says, "sorry Vlad...the 3-5 million offer has expired. Since no one else seems to want you, my offer is now 1 million." However, given the fact that the O's seem to be the only team not insulting Vlad in such a manner (i.e. they're actually offering him a paid, full-time job), that argument flies out the window, IMO.

If Vlad holds the Orioles in such minimal regard that he won't deign to play here for less than X, even though no other teams are exactly...enthusiastic, evidently, about paying him more (or even the same amount) to play for them...well, to Hell with him and his geriatric knees. And to Hell with his pride, as well.

[El Gordo]

Touche. I'm not saying Fangraphs is 100% accurate. Of course it's not. But Damon received about 70% of last year's FG value... and Vlad would be accepting about 20%. As for Thome, his FG value appears to be absurdly inflated for a guy who played a half-season and had about half he RBI that Vlad had in 2010.

And just being real: The Twins weren't facing any similar hurdles to getting a deal done: unfamiliarity, lack of Spanish speakers, 14 years of embarrassing baseball, etc., ad infinitum.

But I know you can come back with stats that just as compellingly disprove my points... so I tip my hat to you.

At the end of the day, I would say: AM can measure his success in this situation by whether he got his man or not... not how badly he screwed his man in the process. I mean, if he fails to sign a MOO hitter when going up against virtually NO competition... how can we possibly expect AM to ever win the bidding for a prime free agent... ever?

Yoiu miss the point. AM doesn't feel the O's need Vlad that badly. And he is not screwing him the market did. Vlad overvalued himself. If he had been willing to accept less than the 2/$16MM he was initially asking, he could have signed with teams like the A's, TAM, or even Texas or the Angels. He waited to long and they went in other directions. So actually he's screwed himself. Do you think the Angels or Texas are going to offer more then the 3-4MM the O's are offering?

[waroriole]

I would point out that Vlad was injured in 2009.

He still played in 100 games. Also, that is kind of my point. His injuries haven't just cleared up. For all the talk Trea did about Lee being injury prone, for him to sit there and glorify Vlad and overlook his injuries is..............well, typical Trea. I'm so shocked that he didn't respond to what you did though.

[Sports Guy]

I'd get the player, though.But the $8 million doesn't concern me too much. I actually think Vlad would take less to play for the Orioles as he obviously is giving them a chance to get close to it, if it actually exists in the first place.

Remember, Lee took less to play for the Orioles...

Yes you would...But you would do it at the expense of the MiL system. Your teams would be built for 1-2 years...and they would be built poorly.

You wouldn't win and you wouldn't have any kind of a future.

[Bradysburns]

Yoiu miss the point. AM doesn't feel the O's need Vlad that badly. And he is not screwing him the market did. Vlad overvalued himself. If he had been willing to accept less than the 2/$16MM he was initially asking, he could have signed with teams like the A's, TAM, or even Texas or the Angels. He waited to long and they went in other directions. So actually he's screwed himself. Do you think the Angels or Texas are going to offer more then the 3-4MM the O's are offering?

Just jumping back on the OH after some medical issues to see we've signed Vlad for $8 million. It will be very interesting to see how the deal is structured, but I am guessing the base is still in this 4-5 range with incentives up to 8. Anyway... yay. AM came through bigtime on this one, IMO.

[Bradysburns]

He still played in 100 games. Also, that is kind of my point. His injuries haven't just cleared up. For all the talk Trea did about Lee being injury prone, for him to sit there and glorify Vlad and overlook his injuries is..............well, typical Trea. I'm so shocked that he didn't respond to what you did though.

Maybe they haven't cleared up, but he had 600-plus ABs last season, so at least he's showing up and playing. Hopefully the trend will continue this year for the Birds! Yay!