Fangraphs doesn't get the Vlad move

[Tony-OH]

Well, I think here's the difference: Some of us don't believe in the mysticism of "learning to win" or that expectations of winning in any way affect outcomes of games.

I don't want to see us in any way damage our future in an attempt to go over .500 this year. To me, we build for the future until we have a decent shot at the playoffs, then we make our run. If you realistically believe we have a shot at the WC this year (and thus, winning 95ish games) then I can understand why you're 100% behind the Vlad signing. I think reasonable people would believe that to be a pipe dream however.

How are we damaging the future with the Vlad signing? Explain to me how this move was to "push us over .500."

You apparently think the Orioles are going to suck once again and that's certainly your right, but don't go around saying things like, "reasonable people would believe that to be a pipe dream" because that suggests those of us who think if things bounce our way this team could compete are unreasonable.

When you look at how we played once Showalter arrived and then how this team was upgraded, I don't see how anyone can look at this team and think it's the same old, same old.

I have no idea if we are going to compete this year because this team still has a lot of wild cards, but for the first time in many years, I can look at this team's roster and say, "You know what, there's a realistic chance this team could compete if some things go their way."

That's not a pipe dream, it's reality. The Orioles have improved enough to be considered a dark horse contender this year and that's a giant step up over their realistic chances over the last 10 years or so.

[ShaneDawg85]

This team is what it is. We either try to win with it now, or blow it up. Besides Britton, all the core pieces are in Baltimore now.

We've done a decent job surrounding the team with veterans to take the pressure off the younger players in the lineup and to provide run support for the pitchers.

This is the season to take that major step forward and we'll need as much support from proven talent to do that as we can get. There is no room for an unproven complementary player to drag the team down.

This is the season the younger players are supposed to get confidence and that winning attitude that they will take forward with them over the next several years while they anchor this team. Much like Jeter and Pettitte first tasted success in 1995, this is the time for Wieters, Jones and Matusz to do the same. They need to be in the middle of a WC race so they know what it is like to win and compete, and will expect to do the same every year going forward. Jeter said that 1995 playoff race and being in the playoffs is what made him expect to win every single year. Buck made him part of that very early in his career. It's time that he does the same for our young players.

Do you ever check your facts? Derek Jeter played in 15 games in 1995, and not one of them came in the postseason.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml

And your slobbering Buck fest never seems to end, even when you're factually wrong.

[ShaneDawg85]

The day the Orioles actually put some wins on the board, such as not have a losing record for starters, then I'll believe we're not a rebuilding club anymore. Until then, consider me just a tad skeptical on the notion that we're done rebuilding.

[primetime]

This really gets to the heart of the matter.

If you believe the O's have completed the transition from rebuilder to contender, then the Vlad signing is surely more understandable.

Personally I think that's premature, and the O's are not really that close to contending. They need to finish no worse than 2nd in the ALE, and even that's no guarantee of a postseason berth. 2nd in the ALE seems very unlikely from where I sit, especially after losing almost 100 games last year. In fact on the surface it seems kinda preposterous actually.

Not too long ago before things got *really* bad for the O's, I recall OHer's routinely bashed the O's FO for taking too shortsighted an approach and trying too hard to scrape together a contending team by acquiring thirtysomething name hitters in an ill-conceived effort to "go for it" even though the younger talent wasn't there yet. I'm thinking the Sosas, Javy Lopez's, Palmieros (the second time), Millars, etc.

Seems an awful lot like the same recipe here.

This is a notion that I never quite understood. Team progress or improvement in W-L column doesn't have to be linear. You're not required to make incremental 8-10 games improvements for 2-3 years before you become a contender.

It's been pointed out in this thread as well as others, that teams have made significant turnarounds (ie, 20 games+) in one season. Particularly when you have a team constructed as the Orioles do, who have a core of players either in or entering their prime, it's not crazy to think they could make a big jump this year. Especially seeing how the picthing trending up in final 1/3 of the 2010 season.