Pie > Jones ?

[El Gordo]

He is in his 9th professional season. What has he been working on for 9 years. You really expect him to learn how to steal bases now???

Yes.

MiL:

A).291 .354 .476 830 53% SB

B).299 .356 .469 825 60% SB The primary difference between these two players is that player A has had 1670 ML AB compared to player B's 800 ML AB, player B is faster and plays better defense, and player A is percieved as cool and Player B is percieved as goofy.

[Tony-OH]

If Pie is healthy, he's a starting LF/CF for quite a few teams.

But you can't gloss over the fact that he can't stay healthy. Even if he did, his career .541 OPS against lefties screams out that he's at best a platoon guy vice an everyday guy.

Also, name me a team that would start Pie in left field every day over their current option/s?

In fact, name me a team that would prefer to have Pie start for them everyday in CF?

Pie is a solid 4th outfielder, but his injury history, inability to hit lefties, and lack of stolen base success suggests he would be a below average, bottom third of the league at best everyday player.

[Tony-OH]

Yes.

MiL:

A).291 .354 .476 830 53% SB

B).299 .356 .469 825 60% SB The primary difference between these two players is that player A has had 1670 ML AB compared to player B's 800 ML AB, player B is faster and plays better defense, and player A is percieved as cool and Player B is percieved as goofy.

Pie has 876 major league plate appearances. MiL stats are no longer a valid point in the argument if you ask me.

[El Gordo]

Pie has 876 major league plate appearances. MiL stats are no longer a valid point in the argument if you ask me.

I'll agree with that after I've seen Pie have a full season of PA. Maybe he's injury prone, but I think it's too early to say that. I think the O's would be a better team with Pie in CF, Jones in LF, and Luke as DH. Sorry.

[LookitsPuck]

But you can't gloss over the fact that he can't stay healthy. Even if he did, his career .541 OPS against lefties screams out that he's at best a platoon guy vice an everyday guy.

Also, name me a team that would start Pie in left field every day over their current option/s?

In fact, name me a team that would prefer to have Pie start for them everyday in CF?

Pie is a solid 4th outfielder, but his injury history, inability to hit lefties, and lack of stolen base success suggests he would be a below average, bottom third of the league at best everyday player.

If healthy were the key words I used.

Stolen bases are overrated.

As for hitting lefties:

250/273/350 - 623 OPS in 2009

230/299/377 - 676 OPS in 2010

What's hilarious?

246/309/357 - 665 OPS in 2009

259/287/380 - 666 OPS in 2010

The first player is Felix Pie. The second player is Adam Jones.

I think Pie can put up something like a 675-700 OPS against lefties. Not great, but not horrid.

As for teams that would love to have him as a starting LF/CF, I'll need to go over everyone's rosters.

[Tony-OH]

I'll agree with that after I've seen Pie have a full season of PA. Maybe he's injury prone, but I think it's too early to say that. I think the O's would be a better team with Pie in CF, Jones in LF, and Luke as DH. Sorry.

No need to apologize. That's your opinion. I just happen to disagree, mainly because I don't think Pie is good enough to be an everyday guy anywhere, nor can he hood up through 500+PAs.

[Tony-OH]

If healthy were the key words I used.

Stolen bases are overrated.

As for hitting lefties:

250/273/350 - 623 OPS in 2009

230/299/377 - 676 OPS in 2010

What's hilarious?

246/309/357 - 665 OPS in 2009

259/287/380 - 666 OPS in 2010

The first player is Felix Pie. The second player is Adam Jones.

I think Pie can put up something like a 675-700 OPS against lefties. Not great, but not horrid.

As for teams that would love to have him as a starting LF/CF, I'll need to go over everyone's rosters.

So you'll need to go look yet you made the comment "If Pie is healthy, he's a starting LF/CF for quite a few teams." How can you say that if you can't name one off the top of your head?

Look, I know some of you guys like certain guys for certain reasons, and after all, it's all just opinion, but the stats and his health history suggests Pie is better suited as a 4th outfielder.

We got him for Garret Olson, and even those who support him here don't think he'd bring a ton in return, so I guess I don't understand we a few guys on here think Pie should start ever day for us.

[Sports Guy]

But you can't gloss over the fact that he can't stay healthy. Even if he did, his career .541 OPS against lefties screams out that he's at best a platoon guy vice an everyday guy.

Also, name me a team that would start Pie in left field every day over their current option/s?

In fact, name me a team that would prefer to have Pie start for them everyday in CF?

Pie is a solid 4th outfielder, but his injury history, inability to hit lefties, and lack of stolen base success suggests he would be a below average, bottom third of the league at best everyday player.

Granderson can't hit lefties either.

Pie could still be a 500 at bat guy with GG ability who can give you a 720+ OPS in CF...That is league average or better...I see no reason for anyone to think he can't do that expect for the injuries, which I agree are a major reason.

However, those injuries and inconsistent playing time are also why he can't consistently show he belongs up here.

BTW, he doesn't look helpless against lefties. His approach isn't bad at all.

[Sports Guy]

Teams Pie could/should start for in CF:

White Sox: Rios can move to one of the corners and Pie goes to CF..Quentin to DH. Now, that doesn't work for them because of Dunn but Pie in CF and Rios in LF is clearly a better option that Rios in CF and Quentin in LF.

Royals: Cain and Pie are similar...I guess you stick with Cain right now but I think that's a relative toss up.

Texas: I would rather have Pie than Borbon

Braves: McLouth? Tough to say..He was good but was awful last year. atlanta has him signed, so we will see...But I am not sure you can say that Pie isn't an upgrade over him right now...But this year will tell a lot.

Cubs: Give me Pie over Byrd. Byrd has been productive but I would personally prefer to give the at bats to Pie..but I can see the argument for Byrd.

Marlins: Can Coughlan handle CF? This one is TBD.

Brewers: Carlos Gomez? Ehh...haven't really seen him. They are probably similar but I think Pie has more power upside.

Mets: Beltran or Pie? I bet if you offered Pie for beltran right now, NY makes the deal. It is a no brainer to say Beltran right now but is he healthy?

SD: Maybin is a good guy to take a shot on...Will he be better than Pie? That's up in the air at this point.

DC: Nyjer morgan? Give me Pie.

[alaniee]

My opinion on Pie is he is very talented. However very troubled (mistakes/injuries).

He's just a big "if".

I like him as our 4th/5th OFer, good back up. Would I rely on him (start): no way.

[Tony-OH]

Granderson can't hit lefties either.

Pie could still be a 500 at bat guy with GG ability who can give you a 720+ OPS in CF...That is league average or better...I see no reason for anyone to think he can't do that expect for the injuries, which I agree are a major reason.

However, those injuries and inconsistent playing time are also why he can't consistently show he belongs up here.

BTW, he doesn't look helpless against lefties. His approach isn't bad at all.

Add in a lack of production and we agree totally.

You know why I think a few of you are fooled by Pie is because he hits well in August. He has a career .839 OPS in August with his next best moth at .707 (June). Both years in Baltimore he's hit well in August before falling back to his sub-mediocre self in September. I think August is a month wear some Orioles fans are looking towards the future because the Orioles are done and the trading deadline has passed. Each hear Pie starts to hit in August and some of you grab onto him as a beacon of the future.

Unfortunately, the realities are that he has never stayed healthy in the big leagues and his inconsistent playing time is because of his own lack of production outside of August. He's solid defensive player and I would have no problems with him in center field defensively everyday, but he's not going to bring enough offense to merit an everyday job.

Could he be a bottom third of the league starting center fielder? Perhaps, but other than flashes I see a guy who makes a nice solid 4th outfielder rather than a guy waiting to breakout into super stardom.

[Sports Guy]

Add in a lack of production and we agree totally.

You know why I think a few of you are fooled by Pie is because he hits well in August. He has a career .839 OPS in August with his next best moth at .707 (June). Both years in Baltimore he's hit well in August before falling back to his sub-mediocre self in September. I think August is a month wear some Orioles fans are looking towards the future because the Orioles are done and the trading deadline has passed. Each hear Pie starts to hit in August and some of you grab onto him as a beacon of the future.

Unfortunately, the realities are that he has never stayed healthy in the big leagues and his inconsistent playing time is because of his own lack of production outside of August. He's solid defensive player and I would have no problems with him in center field defensively everyday, but he's not going to bring enough offense to merit an everyday job.

Could he be a bottom third of the league starting center fielder? Perhaps, but other than flashes I see a guy who makes a nice solid 4th outfielder rather than a guy waiting to breakout into super stardom.

The last thing I am is fooled by anyone but I appreciate you looking out for me.

I am fine with doubting his abilities to stay healthy.

But I think you are dead wrong if you think he can't be a 720ish OPS, above average defensive CFer.

That's all he has to be to be a league average starter.

Obviously, the big key to Pie would be how good his defense is. His hitting is likely going to be inconsistent but he should hit for enough power where he can have a 400-430 slugging, to go along with a 300-320 OBP.

Of the CFers in MLB last year that had at least 439 at bats, 6 guys had an OPS of 735 or less and 5 of those 6 were under 700. In 2009, he gave us a 763 OPS...OBP of 326 an slugging of 437. Last year, his OPS was 718.

So yes, I think Pie could slot in on a team and start and with his defense, give you a WAR of 2-3.

But again, can he give you 500 at bats?

[Frobby]

The last thing I am is fooled by anyone but I appreciate you looking out for me.

I see, so you have never been wrong in your assessment of a player? Wow, you are a very amazing person. We are all very lucky to be allowed to share this board with you.

I don't really disagree with you on Pie, but then, why would that matter? If I disagreed with you, it would be like disagreeing with the law of gravity.

[LookitsPuck]

So you'll need to go look yet you made the comment "If Pie is healthy, he's a starting LF/CF for quite a few teams." How can you say that if you can't name one off the top of your head?

Look, I know some of you guys like certain guys for certain reasons, and after all, it's all just opinion, but the stats and his health history suggests Pie is better suited as a 4th outfielder.

We got him for Garret Olson, and even those who support him here don't think he'd bring a ton in return, so I guess I don't understand we a few guys on here think Pie should start ever day for us.

Because team's rosters have changed from 2010 to 2011? I can name 4-5 teams from 2010 that would have loved to have Pie starting for them if you'd like.

[Tony-OH]

Teams Pie could/should start for in CF:

White Sox: Rios can move to one of the corners and Pie goes to CF..Quentin to DH. Now, that doesn't work for them because of Dunn but Pie in CF and Rios in LF is clearly a better option that Rios in CF and Quentin in LF.

You answered yourself with this one. Not going to happen with Dunn at DH so the Whitesox are out. As much as I'm not a Pierre fan, he's stayed healthy over his career (9 years over 145 games) and was a 2 WAR player last year.

Royals: Cain and Pie are similar...I guess you stick with Cain right now but I think that's a relative toss up.

I'm just guessing here, but I imagine any guy who was the center piece of the Zack Grienke trade is going to start of Pie.

Texas: I would rather have Pie than Borbon

Ok, maybe. Borbon is a former #1 pick (2007) who put up a .790 OPS as a rookie before having a bad year last year at just 24-year of age. I think Texas is not going to give up on Borbon that quickly certainly not for Pie. But, if we were talking about just for this year, I'd prefer to have Pie instead of Borbon as my starting CFer.

Braves: McLouth? Tough to say..He was good but was awful last year. atlanta has him signed, so we will see...But I am not sure you can say that Pie isn't an upgrade over him right now...But this year will tell a lot.

McLouth was horrid last year but he's got a track record before last year's injury riddled season so I would get rid of him for Pie. If he doesn't rebound then certainly Pie is better.

Cubs: Give me Pie over Byrd. Byrd has been productive but I would personally prefer to give the at bats to Pie..but I can see the argument for Byrd.

Byrd is a way more productive offensive player and has been a +war guy defensively the last three years in center. Byrd every day and twice on Sunday for me.

Marlins: Can Coughlan handle CF? This one is TBD.

Good question about Coughlan's glove and as a average at best defensive LFer I'm not sure he's going to be that good in center. However, I do think his bat is way better than Pie's. I'd go with Coughlan.

Brewers: Carlos Gomez? Ehh...haven't really seen him. They are probably similar but I think Pie has more power upside.

This one I agree. I'd want Pie over Gomez and take the injury risk.

Mets: Beltran or Pie? I bet if you offered Pie for beltran right now, NY makes the deal. It is a no brainer to say Beltran right now but is he healthy?

So they could stick us with that contract? I'm not sure that should be involved in this discussion. Beltran the player is way better than Pie even coming off an injury plagued year. I'd take the 33-year old Beltran over Pie.

SD: Maybin is a good guy to take a shot on...Will he be better than Pie? That's up in the air at this point.

I think Maybin is a similar player to Pie but has a bigger upside because he's younger. I agree this one could be a toss up though and it would depend on my team's situation. If I'm building for the future I'd want Maybin, if I'm competing this year I'd probably prefer Pie.

DC: Nyjer morgan? Give me Pie.

Yes, I agree totally.

Ok, so we have two teams (Milwaukee and Washington) where I would definitely want Pie over the current option and a couple of maybes, if under the right circumstance.

That tells me he's a bottom-third option in centerfield. It doesn't mean he would embarrass himself of that he's a terrible player, but it does go to show that even in a position where defense is a huge part of the player's worth, Pie would only be a realistic option in less than five teams in MLB.

We've had this discussion in the past and I really don't think we see Pie all that differently although you seem to see more upside than I do.

In the end, let's hope Pie is productive in whatever role he has with the Orioles.